Why the world is a better place than before

[Flubber]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Gear you could at least replace yourself (I wont insist you make it yourself, as real HGs start with a capital stock)

I'm not claiming that I would be a great hunter-gatherer or that I have elite survival skills or anything

I'm just saying if I wanted to "drop out" and live a subsistence lifestyle , that option is open to me-- I could cash out from my house and investments to the tune of a couple of hundred K-- Maybe I cheat and paddle to town every year or so for replenishment of supplies and to buy vitamins and a chocolate bar or whatever-- I don't want to forswear all the advantages of modern society-- I'm just saying that if a person wanted to isolate themselves and live simply, they have that choice

[Flubber]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I dunno that interior Newfie is quite the ideal hunter gatherer area - too damned cold. I suspect you would have to spend more hours gathering food than the average 12000 BP HG did. Whether you could manage, and how much land youd need to do so, and if you could get enough, I dont know.

Cold?? An artic style sleeping bag would handle that well enough plus I plan to be in a shelter and often have a fire-- newfoundland is reasonably warm in winter with temps frequently above freezing

Perhaps I would need to spend more time gathering although fishing is fantastic-- I know people that just went on the commerically available ponds and lakes and catching the limit of 20 trout per day was easy. I think the hard part would be preserving foods for the winter ( If ice fishing is still abundent-- it would only be the berries and any veggies to store) Even one moose kill in winter would provide abundent meat

BUt heck ever if I bought a lot of stuff and shleped it in, isn't this the carefree existence that kid was talking about

KId if this life is so good, why not do it?

[Eli]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
you think personality is not created by social environment? You think its genetic, or magic?

Doesn't matter. If it's only genetic, my point stands. If it's acquired, then there is no reason for one to learn a trait (capacity for living a fulfilling life, in this case) in an hunter-gatherer environment and not in a modern one, so my point still stands.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
The bushman has to face off with the older cousins of lions, tigers, bears etc etc just to go kill lunch

And today we have to face off against the horrible capitalist pigdog.

Also why are we using the Tukyo businessman-- Why are't we comparing him to a Calgary homeless person??

I'm not the one who did the comparison. I don't think a homeless person is typical, although it's more typical since the republicans took control I think.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


Cold?? An artic style sleeping bag would handle that well enough plus I plan to be in a shelter and often have a fire-- newfoundland is reasonably warm in winter with temps frequently above freezing

Perhaps I would need to spend more time gathering although fishing is fantastic-- I know people that just went on the commerically available ponds and lakes and catching the limit of 20 trout per day was easy. I think the hard part would be preserving foods for the winter ( If ice fishing is still abundent-- it would only be the berries and any veggies to store) Even one moose kill in winter would provide abundent meat

BUt heck ever if I bought a lot of stuff and shleped it in, isn't this the carefree existence that kid was talking about

KId if this life is so good, why not do it?

It sounds like a great life! Of course I wouldn't do it alone, and maybe not New Foundland.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Most people are just as bad off as they have been for a long time. In fact, I would have to say that for the common man, at least in the US life has gotten harder and much more complicated. Sure we have more gadgets but they don't make people happier. In fact they seem to be part of the problem in many ways.

Society is really starting to break down. I really can't see where your optimism is coming from unless you are just fantasizing to make yourself feel good.
[...]
Why? **** just getting to work on the subway or commuter traffic is probably harder than a whole day for the bushman.
[...]
Actually a lot of people are wondering why the hell life is so damn hard today since we have all this technology that is suppose to make things better. They might not all be luddites but most of them are losing their ****ing minds.
[...]
It's a fact that they didn't have to work as hard or as long. Certainly, they had a tons less stress, and they weren't ****ed up by advertising and all that crap.
[...]
Maybe after Whitey came and ****ed everything up. Before that he pretty much lived in harmony with nature and there was plenty for everyone.
[...]
[et cetera for 5 pages]

8.0/10

[Eli]

And today we have to face off against the horrible capitalist pigdog.

No. Today we are the horrible capitalist pigdog. Makes all the difference in the world.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Eli

And today we have to face off against the horrible capitalist pigdog.

No. Today we are the horrible capitalist pigdog. Makes all the difference in the world.

That would be worse. Then I would have to kill myself.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Flubber


Cold?? An artic style sleeping bag would handle that well enough plus I plan to be in a shelter and often have a fire-- newfoundland is reasonably warm in winter with temps frequently above freezing

Perhaps I would need to spend more time gathering although fishing is fantastic-- I know people that just went on the commerically available ponds and lakes and catching the limit of 20 trout per day was easy. I think the hard part would be preserving foods for the winter ( If ice fishing is still abundent-- it would only be the berries and any veggies to store) Even one moose kill in winter would provide abundent meat

BUt heck ever if I bought a lot of stuff and shleped it in, isn't this the carefree existence that kid was talking about

KId if this life is so good, why not do it?

Duh, for cold I didnt mean comfort, I meant the abundance of food per acre. Which has to be less in the subartic than it was in say, Mesopotamia circa 15000 BP.

HG isnt necessarily easy to pull off. When it IS pulled off, it historically involves less hours per day of work than agriculture - but if the climate is such as to reduce food availability per acre, it may well involve as much or more hours of work.

Oh, and if youre using fish or game in place where there are limits on fish or game, to maintain the abundance, thats definitely cheating.

So Im not sure Kid could pull off what youre talking about. One cause I dont think the fish and game is available freely, without poaching. Second, I doubt Kid can afford the starter set youve assumed.

Even if he was willing I dont know Id be. I wouldnt want to be an HG alone, and real life HGs werent. HGs lived in bands, had families, had some culture that helped with what stresses they did face. Modern life may be stressful, but to accept a lifetime of solitude, celibacy, etc, etc? Not to mention that I, and Kid, dont have the skill set that folks raised as HGs do.


I dunno, whats the point, that Kid isnt serious cause he hasnt lit our for Newfie (citizenship issues aside = well theres Alaska, I suppose).

I aint arguing for everyone now to go back to HG. That would involve mass starvation, as the current pop of the planet is like hundreds of times its HG carrying capacity. Unlike Ludd, Im not convinced we''re headed to mass starvation anyway.

What I DO think is we can reflect on the life we were evolved for, to get some hints at what might reduce stress and improve health in our own lives. Were we designed to eat steak every other night, supplemented with sweets, or to eat meat as a supplement to diet and an additional but limited source of complete proteins? Were we designed to sit at desks for hours, or do we need to run and climb? Is it natural for us to have thousands of "contacts" or to mainly interact with a few people we're very close to? Is it natural for us to work on one structured project for long periods, or to explore, search, and move from task to task.

Now we may not be able to live HG "naturally" on all these choices, but when we cant live HG naturally on any of them, we need to watch out.

[Kidlicious]

I'd have to have a credit card. Even people who go on long hikes set food and supplies up for themselves along the way or go to the store every once in awhile.

[lord of the mark]

going to the store is definitely not the classic HG lifestyle.

[lord of the mark]

"we use every part of the buffalo. the meat for food, the bones for tools, the hides for blankets and clothing, the sinews for thread.

for everything else, theres Mastercard"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
"we use every part of the buffalo. the meat for food, the bones for tools, the hides for blankets and clothing, the sinews for thread.

for everything else, theres Mastercard"

[Flubber]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
going to the store is definitely not the classic HG lifestyle.

NO but I wasn't trying to be "true" to a historical lifestyle

I just was seeing people idealizing the "simple" life of a bushman. If its SO attractive, why do not more people do it.

With as little as 10 to 15 K you can purchase a rustic cabin with a woodstove and one or two trips a year into a town should be enough to restock on necessary supplies.

I wasn't advocating a total back to the bush mentality but I am saying that if someone likes the idea of a very simplified existence so much, it would not take a lot of resources to acquire it. I'm just thinking that a modern prson would avail of modern nutrition supplements to assist their health.

heck I'm 39 and if I wanted to I could live in the woods, I could . With 200K in fixed investments at say 5%, I could easily live on the 10K income a year. ( I'd buy some clothers and new boots and shoes each year)

OH and I assume poaching . .. but if I am far enough back in the woods its not like I'm going to be seeing many game wardens. You can go to places in the interior of newfoundland where you are 100 km from any settlement ( its actually a wilderness area where not much of anything is permitted)

[Kidlicious]

Flubber you have kids so that option is kind of out of the question for you, and for me as well.

I suppose it's an option for a wealthy person. Then that person would need others who want to do it also. No one wants to go out and live by themselves except hermits. But then if you are wealthy you can sit on a beach in the Bahamas and have people wait on you. So I expect more people do that.