Generation "X" Needs To Do Something of Note, or Keep Mouths Closed

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Ming


And it never would have started unless the CCX had proved the model could work

LOL

The real point is that companies are addressing Global Warming. And to claim that the US isn't doing anything about it because our crappy government wouldn't sign a worthless treaty is simply funny. Results are what really matters here. And the CCX and other such exchanges are providing real results.

The real point is that it's fun to take shots at the USA regardless of basis in fact*.


*Sometimes it is in fact, sometimes it isn't

[Az]

I would like to point out that IMHO, people after 1986 aren't the same generation as us 1976-1986 people.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by PLATO
Baby Boomers are generally considered to have been born upto 1963.

That puts Barak clearly in the baby boomer generation.

not according to wikipedia, source of all sources

[Kuciwalker]

Wikipedia.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ming
Yeah... we didn't buy into a flawed treaty that really wouldn't accomplish anything but allow some nations to pat themselves on the back and think they actually accomplished something meaningful

Instead, you should take a look at what the CCX has accomplished. The Chicago Climate Exchange is doing more to tackle global warming than a flawed treaty.
It has been so successful that the UK will probably set up their own version of it. Companies are volutarily joining up to do their share. The CCX gives them an economic reason to do so, and is providing real results.
Instead of just meaningless words on a badly written treaty, it's a practical and realistic approach to helping to solve the problem.

Oh I agree, I'm all for carbon trading. But the US version of it is hardly reducing emissions to any great extent, at least no-where near the extent I think is needed (I broadly agree with the Stern review as to what level is needed).

But no, my comment wasn't about Kyoto, it was about the common American still feeling it's ok to use their car with impunity, to use as much electricity at home as they want to, so long as they can pay for it, and generally not really caring. Crediting a generation with something, to me, is about a mass event or movement that involves lots of people, whether that's a war, hippyism or climate change. The US doesn't have a large movement, as far as I can tell, of people changing their lifestyle for environmental reasons.

And whichever system was designed after which isn't the issue. CCX has little effect on US emissions. Neither does the EU exchange yet, but it's getting tightened up, and the issue for this thread seemed more about public pressure from a generation, than action by a few people.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Krill
In other words, please god don't make me the same generation as the chav ****...

I think we have a split generation. There are, to borrow a phrase, the chavs and the chav-nots. Admittedly the chavs seem to be winning in the young today, but if you're talking about mid-80s births, there tends to be those who were part of various alternative cultures (goths, chavs, etc.) and those who weren't. I was born in 1984, and I see a lot of similarity between myself and my brothers friends (born late 1970s-early 1980s - current grad students), people born around my age and a few years younger (undergrads). However there's a distinct disparity between that and the people I meet when I go home for the holidays, not just in outlook, but in lifestyle. Half our generation seem to be driven, hardworking, passionate people, whether they be corporate-whore-wannabes or politics/charity-wannabes; and half of them seem to be chavs or suchlike who see work as a necessary evil.

I'm sure this is usually the case in most generations, but in most generations, there seems to be a scale where most people are in the middle, whereas in my generation, it seems to be polarising.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ming
And it never would have started unless the CCX had proved the model could work

The real point is that companies are addressing Global Warming. And to claim that the US isn't doing anything about it because our crappy government wouldn't sign a worthless treaty is simply funny. Results are what really matters here. And the CCX and other such exchanges are providing real results.

Nothing about Kyoto here, all about results. Show me where the US has lowering CO2 emissions? It's also a hell of a lot easier to lower it from such a high position. I can understand why somewhere like Holland might have trouble getting it much lower - it's not like they can use the car less and cycle more, since they already cycle loads. The UK had a harder start point than the US, and we still managed to cut our CO2 emissions.

But for this thread, it's not even about results - it's about what a generation thinks. And the mass feeling in the UK tends to be towards green - all major political parties are trying to "out-green" each other, for once it's become a vote-winner, as people want to see it. I've never heard of that sort of movement in the US, where people actively cut their own emissions for envionmental reasons?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Drogue
Oh I agree, I'm all for carbon trading. But the US version of it is hardly reducing emissions to any great extent, at least no-where near the extent I think is needed (I broadly agree with the Stern review as to what level is needed).

The changes you want won't happen overnight. And nothing you or your government is doing is reducing emissions to any great extent either at the present. It's a long process. And now we are starting to make progress. More and more people are starting to change their attitudes, driving less, taking more mass transportation, using less electiricty. It's all a step in the right direction.

The US doesn't have a large movement, as far as I can tell, of people changing their lifestyle for environmental reasons.

I don't see it in your country either... probably because I haven't really looked. Maybe if you looked, you would see it here as well. There are many enviornmental groups here... strong movements... businesses as well, as can seen by the support to the CCX. Yeah, there alot of "common" people here who don't give a damn, but if you look deeply into your own country, you will them as well.

And whichever system was designed after which isn't the issue. CCX has little effect on US emissions. Neither does the EU exchange yet, but it's getting tightened up, and the issue for this thread seemed more about public pressure from a generation, than action by a few people.

Programs like the CCX weren't set up by your generation. Enviornmental groups have been around for a long time in the US... with envolvement from ALL age groups. But, if you want to pat yourself on the back and think yours is the only generation that cares about the enviornment... feel free if it will make you feel special.
It just isn't true. Many of in the US care... and some of us are even old enough to be your parents

[Sir Og]

This generation has created Google, Apolyton, Wikipedia and Youtube nuff said.

And they haven't even started.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ming
I don't see it in your country either... probably because I haven't really looked. Maybe if you looked, you would see it here as well. There are many enviornmental groups here... strong movements... businesses as well, as can seen by the support to the CCX. Yeah, there alot of "common" people here who don't give a damn, but if you look deeply into your own country, you will them as well.

But it's not mainstream, a mass movement. It is here. Haven't you seen both parties making big green pledges? Our last budget being largely full of green measures? Our conservative leader of the opposition having his own wind-generator on top of his house? This is what's winning votes here, at the moment.

Originally posted by Ming
It just isn't true. Many of in the US care... and some of us are even old enough to be your parents

That's good to here. There are obviously people who see it both ways everywhere. Just looking at emissions figures and the actions of democratically elected politicians, it seems to show where the mass populace lies.

This is my point - there's no mass movement, no large change of public opinion, of policy, in the US (yet - I can see things happening slowly). Whereas in the UK, there is. There is a big change in public opinion, and of policy, towards a greener way of living.

Originally posted by Ming
Programs like the CCX weren't set up by your generation. Enviornmental groups have been around for a long time in the US... with envolvement from ALL age groups. But, if you want to pat yourself on the back and think yours is the only generation that cares about the enviornment... feel free if it will make you feel special.

Oh I'm not arguing that! My point wasn't defending any generation, just the argument that I don't think any generation, since before the baby boomers, has done anything really of note, as a generation, so the question is a bit mute.

Or to put it a bit more directly - what had the baby boomers done by the time they were in their 30s as a generation? If Generation X should do something of note or quit whining, what had the generation before done of note by that time? I'm happy to admit my generation has done nothing of note yet, but what has any other since the war?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Sir Og
This generation has created Google, Apolyton, Wikipedia and Youtube nuff said.

And they haven't even started.

That might be a really good point. While the previous generation may have developed the internet technology, it has been a huge shift, very quickly, due to a small part of a generation.

[SlowwHand]

Look at them all. Trying to jump off the "X" ship and the "Y" ship. Go ahead. Invent a new generation in protest.







You guys are so funny.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Drogue
Oh I'm not arguing that! My point wasn't defending any generation, just the argument that I don't think any generation, since before the baby boomers, has done anything really of note, as a generation, so the question is a bit mute.

Then I apologize, I really thought you were implying that your generation is the only one that cares about the enviornment. When it comes to Global Warmning, I would have to agree that our generation didn't do anything about it when were young... but only because it wasn't a known/big issue back then. For us, it was water polution and other examples that we could see.
And those we did care and act about. And with success.
We now have better forestry practices in place... we can swim and use our lakes and rivers again... many, many successes.

I just guess I'm a little tired listening to younger people say my generation sucks, or "should die", and paint a broad picture on how we are ALL bad. Many aren't.

And I guess you probably feel the same way since you aren't a lazy, demanding, whiny, little punk like much of your generation

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ming
I just guess I'm a little tired listening to younger people say my generation sucks, or "should die", and paint a broad picture on how we are ALL bad. Many aren't.

And I guess you probably feel the same way since you aren't a lazy, demanding, whiny, little punk like much of your generation

Damn skippy There's a lot of that in the UK media "this country is going to hell" type of thing. With good reason too, at many things our generation, especially those now teenagers, is appauling. But there are some good apples. And it's the sad case, as always, where the good apples have to pay along with the bad apples.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Drogue
With good reason too, at many things our generation, especially those now teenagers, is appauling.

Like your spelling.