1 in 4 will revolt, but the government doesn't care

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Geronimo


WIth proposals like that their backers should not be surprised that they have trouble convincing their constituents to accept something even so modest as photo identification on drivers license.

Who would want to have random stop and search authorized? And if random stop and search were *already* legal who would want to surrender any tools to such a government at all?

Or are you saying that random stop and searches aren't necessarily legal but that the proposal would apply only to stop and searches done while stopping for an oberved violation of the law? In that case who cares? Criminals will get booked (fingerprints, mugshot, etc) anyway so big deal if they have to present their ID at arrest.

Section 44 of the Terrorism Act allows the police to stop and search anyone without need for cause by suspicion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article579334.ece

[Patroklos]

That, not ID cards, is scary.

[Dauphin]

You can be held for 28 days without charge, government had pushed for 90 days but opposition was too strong.

Can you understand why trust in the government on these matters is rather low?

[Patroklos]

Yeah, but a simple sanity check seperates the two. In that case I really do want a secure ID to make sure I gon't get a 28 day vacation.

Good movie btw

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Dauphin
Can you understand why trust in the government on these matters is rather low?

Given the numerous powers you do allow them to have, no I can not.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Dauphin
The other benefits, such as reduction of fraud, I am highly doubtful of. The government says that the cost of identity fraud is £1.7 billion/year, and having seen the breakdown of this figure the number of guestimations and use of figures from non concurrent years makes it a nonsensical amount - for example they attribute £400 million to money laundering with the caveat 'no figures are currently available on the proportion of money laundering that relies on identity fraud'.

This is quite correct. Legally speaking, there is no such thing as 'identity theft'. It conjures up images of some master of disguise stealing your life, but most of the time, it's good old fashioned credit card fraud.

That could be tackled by cracking down on the unsolicited credit card applications which pour through everyone's letterbox. Or giving every household in Britain a hand-cranked paper shredder: cost £2.99 each.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Patroklos
What is the harm of having a truely secure/modern ID? Especially if the consolidate the funcions of four or five other cards I already have in my wallet. There is no logical reason to be against this. Especially in Britain where they already have telescreens.

What, apart from costing the same as twenty Millennium Domes?

There's the creation of a whole new class of 'ID crimes'. A £1000 fine or prison if you don't volunteer yourself to be fingerprinted and iris-scanned. Or if you move house without telling the ID people. Just what our packed prisons need.

[Sandman]

Here's a good one: The Home Secretary can demand the surrender of your ID card at any time, turning you into a non-person.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dauphin


Section 44 of the Terrorism Act allows the police to stop and search anyone without need for cause by suspicion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle579334.ece

Please tell me there is far more opposition to this appalling authorization to stop and search everybody at random than there is to issuing a photo ID to everybody.

[snoopy369]

Perhaps the issue is that the government is using the polarization over the ID cards to distract the people from the actual violations of their rights... ?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Yeah, but a simple sanity check seperates the two. In that case I really do want a secure ID to make sure I gon't get a 28 day vacation.

Good movie btw

You think that ID cards would prevent that?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Geronimo

Please tell me there is far more opposition to this appalling authorization to stop and search everybody at random than there is to issuing a photo ID to everybody.

There is opposition, but it's not organised.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Given the numerous powers you do allow them to have, no I can not.

How very black and white of you.

[DinoDoc]

Perhaps you can enlighten me why I should see this as a bridge to far in light of all the other (what would be seen here as extraordinary) powers you and the British public seem fine with the government having if my view is too limited?

[Dauphin]

If you think that opposition hasn't been growing upon each erosion then it is your understandable lack of awareness that is at fault.

If the first step is not denied, does that mean that every subsequent step is acceptable because the last one wasn't opposed to as much?