1 in 4 will revolt, but the government doesn't care

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Scheduling the payments in advance sounds like pain in the arse if you use the credit card for all purchases unless I'm misunderstanding how you are doing so.

I just mean that as soon as the bill comes in I schedule the payment (~21 days in advance).

I do all my bills for that month at the same time, so I don't forget any of them.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Dauphin
I have mine paid off by direct debit monthly, I just check the balance amount was correct, and then later that it was paid correctly, when the respective credit card and bank statements come through.

I'm too nervous to schedule automatic "pay in full". My CC bill is often close to the same size as my chequing account balance and I want to avoid overdraft problems.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Dauphin
It permits me to drive.

how can it be identified that someone has a legit driver's license if there is no photo record and/or fingerprint record?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by MarkG
how can it be identified that someone has a legit driver's license if there is no photo record and/or fingerprint record?

Not quite sure... NZ used to have photo-less driver's licenses. It changed mostly because of the issue of underage drinkers using friends' licenses for ID at bars.

Do some countries demand photo ID when you pay by cheque?

And I'd be worried too if my government demanded I had photo ID. As it is, I carried my driver's license around in NZ to allow me to drink - but that was entirely voluntary. I don't like the idea of a random authority figure at home fining or arresting me because I didn't/couldn't show them official ID.

Of course, I have to live with that in Switzerland, because I'm not Swiss, which makes me a second-class citizen here. Although, since the Swiss need to prove their first-class status to the authorities, they must need to carry photo ID as well...

[Patroklos]

I don't like the idea of a random authority figure at home fining or arresting me because I didn't/couldn't show them official ID.

And this is how paranoia is born. Where did anyone say government officials can check the IDs at will?

[Dauphin]

One of the proposals is that the cards would have to be presented on a stop and search.

[reds4ever]

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a person write a cheque out to pay for goods at a shop. If I was in a queue behind someone who did it I'd see my arse!!

[Patroklos]

Well guess what you have to present every time you get stopped here?

Your state drivers license.

And what happens when they run it through their system?

Murderers, rapists, escaped prisoners, wanted felons, dead beat parents, and people with revoked drivers licenses get arrested. The last one is what they are actually looking for, but might as well check everything else while your at it.

And if you didn't do anything wrong what happens?

You get a ticket. You don't go to a concentration camp, you don't get summarily executed, your not reeducated, and they don't sell you into slavery to intergalactic visitors.

[Patroklos]

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a person write a cheque out to pay for goods at a shop. If I was in a queue behind someone who did it I'd see my arse!!

Old ladies at the grocery store, when they don't have enough pennies.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Well guess what you have to present every time you get stopped here?

Your state drivers license.

And what happens when they run it through their system?

Murderers, rapists, escaped prisoners, wanted felons, dead beat parents, and people with revoked drivers licenses get arrested. The last one is what they are actually looking for, but might as well check everything else while your at it.

And if you didn't do anything wrong what happens?

You get a ticket. You don't go to a concentration camp, you don't get summarily executed, your not reeducated, and they don't sell you into slavery to intergalactic visitors.

Umm, you are assuming that the person was stopped for driving, rather than just being stopped in the street.

You also seem to be on a bit of a rant for no apparent reason.

[Patroklos]

You also seem to be on a bit of a rant for no apparent reason.

Pekka seems to think there is a valid reason to be against this ID besides money and laziness.

[Dauphin]

I gave up reading Pekka rants a long time ago.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Well guess what you have to present every time you get stopped here?

There's a difference between being stopped while driving and being stopped while walking.

I shouldn't have to carry a government ID when I'm walking outside.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dauphin
One of the proposals is that the cards would have to be presented on a stop and search.

WIth proposals like that their backers should not be surprised that they have trouble convincing their constituents to accept something even so modest as photo identification on drivers license.

Who would want to have random stop and search authorized? And if random stop and search were *already* legal who would want to surrender any tools to such a government at all?

Or are you saying that random stop and searches aren't necessarily legal but that the proposal would apply only to stop and searches done while stopping for an oberved violation of the law? In that case who cares? Criminals will get booked (fingerprints, mugshot, etc) anyway so big deal if they have to present their ID at arrest.

[Dauphin]

I missed your post earlier

Originally posted by Patroklos
As for daycare, I am guessing you don't use it much if the only safeguard you think necessary against some stranger picking your kids up is whether an underpaid caregiver who probably supervises a thousand children over a week remembers every parent by face. Right now they do use IDs to pick your kids up, and if you can think of a reason not to make that transaction more secure go for it.

I don't have kids, so I don't use them much. If you are dropping your kids off at a complex that has 1,000 kids going to it, then I can understand your concern. My experience (friends and family who do use them) is that they are small enough for staff to know the parents. A quick check suggest that most nurseries in the UK usually have no more than 40 children. Your experience is obviously different to this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/childcare/available_nurseries.shtml

As an unrelated anecdote, the woman who ran the nursery in Connecticut that I was at for one year recognised my mum's face and remembered her name some 20 years later.

Who ever said the card was for tracking purposes? Sure it could be used for such in instances when it has to be scanned, but how often do you think every feature of the card will actually be used? CAT card data chips are only used when accessing secret web sites, in which case tracking would be a welcome side effect, though the main purpose of the ID card is to ID you at time of use, you know, in case you weren't supposed to be accessing secret web sites.

If you are a suspect under investigation you are tracked via a variety of means, including credit card transactions. If you are forced to have an ID card as your means of identification, and it is continuously being cross referenced to a government database, then it is usable as a means of tracking you.

So? Do you not have to present your library card? Does this not get scanned? Does it not have all sorts of information such as your address, check out history (to find those nasty dissidents OMFG!!!), and most heinous of all date and time you were there on file? What does it matter if your picture is on it? It might keep people from checking out Bill O'Rielly books under you name thus soiling your good reputation. What logical reason do you have for the library not proving who you are before they give government property to you?

Hmm, bizzare rant there. My complaint here was that I don't see the point in paying $300+ for a compulsory ID card that is going to replace my effectively free library card or Blockbuster rental card. Suppose all I want is a library book, is my point.

Probably nothing, as they were citizens in good standing before the bombings. Home grown terrorism has its own host of problems. Did your cameras stop any IRA bombings? But hell, if we can't stop bus bombings why worry about credit card fraud or kidnapping or me not having to care 20 different cards in my wallet?

I personally don't consider having a few cards less in my wallet a great benefit compared to the cost. The other benefits, such as reduction of fraud, I am highly doubtful of. The government says that the cost of identity fraud is £1.7 billion/year, and having seen the breakdown of this figure the number of guestimations and use of figures from non concurrent years makes it a nonsensical amount - for example they attribute £400 million to money laundering with the caveat 'no figures are currently available on the proportion of money laundering that relies on identity fraud'. The cost of the cards is currently stated at around £1bn/year (again a randomly chosen figure that I don't have faith in considering that it keeps changing). Assuming both are correct however, these cards have to have over a 50% success rate in reducing identity fraud. I doubt that will ever be proven because the government can't even make up its mind on what the actual cost of fraud is to begin with.

There is also an argument that many of the costs involved in the new ID system would be incurred anyway. There is a 70% figure quoted around the place. I consider that a dubious calculation aswell, not least because no breakdown of that figure is given by the government.