Is feminism inherently negative?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


I can't speak to the first bit really (my dad was Mr. Mom, but only after having been a pigdog oppressor grade A-2 high-level executive first), but I have found the latter. My wife makes a LOT more than me, and there is no respect problem.

-Arrian

Well good. I'm just speaking in the general case. It sounds like you have a healthy family where people respect you regardless of how much money you bring home.

My comment is that generally i our society the amt of respect that you get is in accordance to how much money you bring in.

[Arrian]

Fair enough.

If you got no money and you got no car,
Then you got no woman, and there you are.



-Arrian

[Pekka]

I think where we see the career vs. home thing is when both man and woman have a career going on, so who is the one staying home? We can always say that it would better if the woman stays, but then again, why couldn't the man do that as well? That's like someone saying and assume you're the man, that you have to stay home and put your career on a hold for.. a long time. You'd ask why the hell would I want to do that?

So... it should be a question of arranging things, not assumptions. If the woman wants to stay, that's great. But if she doesn't, the decision can't be made "because you're a woman". It is made like that a whole lot, and that's what it's all about. As a man it's easy to say, well that's right, that's fair, I bring in the money, you keep the household up and raise the kids. How is this not oppressing women and their freedom? Why can't they have a say in it that would weigh as much as the man's opinion?

If my future wife is career oriented, we'll arrange it then. Perhaps she'll be home at first for the critical first months, and I'll be home after that and we take turns. We both do our careers as well as keep the home up and raise the kids. Why would you want to miss the first years of your kid groing up? I don't want to miss that. I want to be at home as well. I want to be a dad that is there and I just don't want to miss all the play time and that stuff, I want to play as well damn it!

It's a question of, "so you don't clean, cook, or make the place nice. What good are you?". I totally agree that as long as both want it the way it's going down, it's great. I'm not good at making a home look nice. So if my wife wants to chip in and do that side better, great. But I view is as a partnership, so there's trade offs and as a unit, we still need to respect each other and the needs and fantasies of each other. If a woman wants to stay home, all the better for me. If she wants a career, I guess we have to make compromises so we can both do that. But I'm not the one to tell a partner that you have to give up your dreams so I can chase mine. If we can't arrange it, then we're not meant for each other.

And I don't care what the society or other men would tell me about staying home, I dont' want to miss anything from kids growing up. It's a question of arranging things, compromises and making the decisions so no one has to give up their dreams, that's important. If my kid or one of them is a girl, you're damn right I won't raise them to be victims and weak players of the society. They will realize their dreams and then go after it and we'll just support that.

The bottom line is, I do not recognize the power of a person to oppress the other one into a mold or to give up their dreams and how they want to live their lives. I don't recognize the power of the society or even the set structures to guide other people, especially my kids. We'll take a different approach, and that will be to realize what you want to doing that, if you aren't going to enjoy your life and do what makes you happy, you might just as well fast forward it all and go to grave, especially the ones living in the west where the survival isn't a question. My kids will turn teachers crazy by questioning everything, and being able to defend all sides of opinions. And if they grow up to be stupid and not able to do that, oh well, then we do what ever they want, tha tmeans, if the girl wants to play hockey, she plays hockey. If the boy wants to freaking dance, he'll dance.

And if we'd have to take some hits economy wise, well that's just what will happen then, assuming we still can function. I think what parents should be focusing on is creating a safe environemtn for their kids to grow up and have a stable releationship to BOTH parents. Nothing beats that. And why wouldn't it be the #1 priority in your life as a parent. I'm not a parent but I already know that will be the first goal and the only goal when it should happen. I had a good childhood and I want to provide the same for others as well. It's the road to success. There's no reason to compromise that goal, and in my mind it includes both parents, not just one.

[Starchild]

Originally posted by aneeshm
The West is not "stable" in a social sense.

Good for us. What you call stability I'd call stagnation. Its good we've got extreme feminists. Its good we've got extremists of all varieties, since they force us to challenge our pre-conceptions and justify our way of life. As long as there is no use of violence, our "internal threats" make us stronger. As for our "external threats", the only ones I take seriously (and the current irritation of islamic miltancy is not one of them) have only been able to challenge us by becoming more Western in their society.

[Pekka]

Oh yeah, and I'm a huge catch too. Send the memo to everyone.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I've sent the memo to Starchild

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm

A simple inherent difference - men have penises. Women do not.

You'll find that the penis is a homologue of the clitoris- the default setting for foetuses is female.

So you could say the inherent difference is that men have a rather less sensitive and rewarding version of a clitoris...

This of course fully explains the difference in wages between men and women, for the same work in the same setting.

Clearly having a penis is essential for all those penis-centred or penis-only jobs, like, erm, managing director, investment banker, head of human resources, company secretary, lathe operator, car mechanic, police officer, et cetera, et cetera....

[Starchild]

I cook and clean and am willing to try whatever perversion passes for sexual normality up there in Finn-land.

[Arrian]

[Pekka]

Starchild, right, but you can't give birth to kids so.. sorry.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Pekka
Starchild, right, but you can't give birth to kids so.. sorry.

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Pekka
Starchild, right, but you can't give birth to kids so.. sorry.

I can steal them. I look ever so innocent and can run faster than most maternity ward nurses.

[Patroklos]

So you could say the inherent difference is that men have a rather less sensitive and rewarding version of a clitoris...

My penis is very rewarding, thank you very much!

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is feminism inherently negative?

Originally posted by molly bloom
Firstly you're making the inaccurate assumption that all or most rape leads to conception.

No I'm not.

Secondly, you're ignoring the effects of rape as punishment and shame inducer.

Those effects ultimately derive from the reproductive aspect of sex (and rape, particularly rape by an invading army).

Thirdly, you're ignoring the physical pain inflicted during forced intercourse.

It's irrelevant.

[Arrian]

Aneeshm,

April 26th is National Take your Daughter to work day here in the USA. I figured I'd let you know so you could be outraged at the feminazi conspiracy.

-Arrian