Windows Vista marketing 'deceived' consumers

[Asher]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
This, from the article:

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

Your comment was with regard to new PCs being sold, the survey is about active desktop PCs in use. OEM and retail markets are very very very different -- if you buy a retail edition of Home Basic without thinking its featureset differs from Home Premium, you're ****ing retarded.

Not to mention, that article was crap (as you'd expect, from the Register).

Vista Capable PCs only require 512MB RAM. Not 1GB.

[Mercator]

But seeing as the article is about the "deception" of Home Basic not being proper Vista, I would assume they're referring to the Premium Ready requirement, which is 1GB.

That's also what the source, Everdream, refers to. But this article neglects to mention it explicitly.

In fact, Everdream do mention the number of computers that don't meet all Premium Ready requirements (~80%), but they don't give that overall figure for the Vista Capable requirements (only for the requirements individually). Judging from the figures they do give I'd guess ~30%. But it looks to me like they're being deceptive as well.

In any case, I agree with you.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Imran and Kuci call them cry babies.

Because they are. If I was the judge, I'd toss out the case and charge them with a frivolous lawsuit.

I'd like to personally slap them in the face for their stupidity. When there are multiple versions of Vista, OBVIOUSLY some of those versions won't have all of the features of some of the others (hence the reason for multiple versions).

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Mercator
But seeing as the article is about the "deception" of Home Basic not being proper Vista, I would assume they're referring to the Premium Ready requirement, which is 1GB.

That's also what the source, Everdream, refers to. But this article neglects to mention it explicitly.

In fact, Everdream do mention the number of computers that don't meet all Premium Ready requirements (~80%), but they don't give that overall figure for the Vista Capable requirements (only for the requirements individually). Judging from the figures they do give I'd guess ~30%. But it looks to me like they're being deceptive as well.

In any case, I agree with you.

Good, because the article is crap.

But seeing as the article is about the "deception" of Home Basic not being proper Vista

'Proper Vista' amounts to the pretty interface and media centre functions... according to the Register and the ambulance chasers.

You do NOT need 1G to run Office, or any other common, basic app on Vista. That is why Vista Business has a requirement of 512M.

Which is 'Proper Vista'? The one you use to watch movies (there are third party media centre apps available, btw, no need for MS to hold your hand all the way) or is it the code to run the apps that you need?

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm no fan of Microsoft's business practices, but I've got to agree with Asher. (Well, except for the dig at Americans, who really have no monopoly on stupidity. Ours is just better publicized.)

You might not have a monopoly, but I'm confident you have a rather substantial lead in market share...

[-Jrabbit]

We're #1! We're #1!

[lord of the mark]

i havent seen the ads for Vista. I would suspect the case would hinge on whats in them. If they say "Vista is great because it has X" I think its not unreasonable for a consumer to assume that, well, Vista has feature X. Like if a car company runs a huge ad about how the Acme Motors Jalopy of 2007 can go from zero to 60 in 5 seconds, and thats what sets it apart from other cars, its not his obligation to research that that only applies to the LX version of the Jalopy with the turbine engine.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Which is 'Proper Vista'? The one you use to watch movies (there are third party media centre apps available, btw, no need for MS to hold your hand all the way) or is it the code to run the apps that you need?

I would think "proper Vista" is the version that can run all the features that M$ says in its advertising are the reasons to upgrade to "Vista", and the things that set "Vista" apart from other operating systems.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Like if a car company runs a huge ad about how the Acme Motors Jalopy of 2007 can go from zero to 60 in 5 seconds, and thats what sets it apart from other cars, its not his obligation to research that that only applies to the LX version of the Jalopy with the turbine engine.

You're dead wrong on this, LOTM. If you buy a 4-cylinder version and there's a V8 with turbocharger available, you have no right to expect high end performance. You are, in fact, an idiot.

Caveat emptor means "let the buyer beware." It's a legal principle.

Answers.com:
The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.

If the product does what is says it will do -- as noted on the Windows Vista website, on their store signage, and on the product box -- there is no legal ground for a lawsuit. Microsoft actually did a great job of promoting the various differences in the product variations. There was nothing hidden or sneaky about it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


You're dead wrong on this, LOTM. If you buy a 4-cylinder version and there's a V8 with turbocharger available, you have no right to expect high end performance. You are, in fact, an idiot.

Caveat emptor means "let the buyer beware." It's a legal principle.

Answers.com:
The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.

If the product does what is says it will do -- as noted on the Windows Vista website, on their store signage, and on the product box -- there is no legal ground for a lawsuit. Microsoft actually did a great job of promoting the various differences in the product variations. There was nothing hidden or sneaky about it.

1. Caveat Emptor is a principle of the common law. It is overridden by statute, in most US states by the Uniform Commerical Code, which is why we have implied warranty, and other principles inconsistent with Caveat Emptor.

2. As I said, I havent seen the ads. If they did not imply that all versions of Vista have features that only some do, then of course theres nothing wrong. If they did so state, but greater clarity is presented in the website, store signage, and the product box - well then its a question of the law in each jurisdiction whether the clarity in the other media overcomes the misleading ads, and how much burden there is on consumers to check on misleading ads. But while they may well lose their case, its not a situation thats as obviously laughable as posters imply.

3. Even if theres no legal liabilty on the part of M$, saying "caveat emptor, tough noogies" doesnt add to the view of M$ as all warm and cuddly towards their customers. Ive got a 6 month old machine with 512 MB, and I'll be damned if Im gonna rush out to upgrade. Heck, Im thinking its time to download OpenOffice, and play around with it, just to start on my path of liberation.

[Asher]

If you haven't seen the ads, kindly stop commenting.

The ads are like everything else...showing new features of the product. Not all versions have all features.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


You're dead wrong on this, LOTM. If you buy a 4-cylinder version and there's a V8 with turbocharger available, you have no right to expect high end performance. You are, in fact, an idiot.

supposing Ive never been under the hood of my car. the whole car industry is barely 30 years old, going back to the time cars were first sold commercially. In that compressed time we've gone from hand cranks to computer controlled engines. I dont know precisely what a cylinder is, or what a turbocharger is. Most people I know dont know what those are, either. Acme motors has a virtual monopoly on cars. They have aggressively promoted the car (in general) as the answer to all transportation needs. They have not suggested at any time that folks like me, who cant tell a camshaft from a powerbrake, dont have any business buying cars - hell they think we should buy two or three cars. Then they tell me that the latest Acme offering, the Jalopy 2007, will get me from zero to 60 in four seconds. and that the Jalopy 2007, is available for only $12,000. Now on the Acme website it explains that its only the LX that does that, and that the DX, which IS available for 12k, doesnt. Its printed in small print behind the left door. And its on a poster at the dealers - except when I go to the dealer, hes interested in selling me a machine, and when i say I can only spend 12k, he gladly steers me to the DX, and when I say I want the Jalopy 2007, with all the cool features, he proudly points to the Jalopy 2007 nameplate.


Now maybe Acme Motors isnt legally liable. But dissing the folks who bought the Jalopy 2007 DX for being idiots, is well ........

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
If you haven't seen the ads, kindly stop commenting.

The ads are like everything else...showing new features of the product. Not all versions have all features.

showing new features of WHICH product is the question. If Honda renames the Civic as the Accord Basic, and then advertises how much space the Accord has, and also talks about how cheap the Accord is (using the price of the "Accord Basic") and somebody buys the Accord Basic, and then finds out it doesnt have the room of a real accord, well.......

Its a question of how far its legitimate to stretch a brand. Apple stretches the IPOD brand, but then the sheer number of songs the high end Ipods hold isnt the Ipods key selling point - so their gimped versions, arent really all that gimped. M$ of course runs the gamut now with the 360 from "Core" to "elite"

At the very least, M$ deserves to have the Vista brand tarnished by "Vista Basic"

[Imran Siddiqui]

Err... Microsoft's ads don't discuss price. They merely mention the features of Vista. Not every version has all the features, but they never show all the features and then say, "and you can get this for only $xx".

So that comparison is silly.

A better one is an ad for, say, a Camry, advertising the features and showing (of course) the top of line model with a sunroof and all that. They don't have to say that is their top of the line model of Camry, and only do say that when they show the price (they add a statement saying $xx,xxx "as shown"). Vista ads don't have prices though.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


showing new features of WHICH product is the question. If Honda renames the Civic as the Accord Basic, and then advertises how much space the Accord has, and also talks about how cheap the Accord is (using the price of the "Accord Basic") and somebody buys the Accord Basic, and then finds out it doesnt have the room of a real accord, well.......

Its a question of how far its legitimate to stretch a brand. Apple stretches the IPOD brand, but then the sheer number of songs the high end Ipods hold isnt the Ipods key selling point - so their gimped versions, arent really all that gimped. M$ of course runs the gamut now with the 360 from "Core" to "elite"

At the very least, M$ deserves to have the Vista brand tarnished by "Vista Basic"

It's clear you're clueless about anything not Jewish...so until the MS logo is the Star of David, you may as well be quiet.