The worst casualty of the missionary activity in India.....

[aneeshm]

....are India's indigenous Christians.

I came across this comment from one such person on another message board, in response to one person saying that Christianity came to India with the coming of the "firangis", or foreigners:

Dear [name withheld],..the so called "firangis" persecuted the indian church.

our churches burned,priests murdered,scrpitures burned...

hve u read abt the Coonan Cross Oath in kerala in 1653?..ths when the indigenous st.thomas christians revolted against the roman catholic church and the portuguese and took the legendary oath..
the oath that neither them nor their descendants will never owe allegiance to the pope or rome...

The Orthodox,syriac christian ppl in india are the descendants of those who revolted that day.

We,the st.thomas christians as we ar called have a legacy older than tht of europe.
St.Thomas came to India in Ad 52,...while St.Peter reached rome only in AD 64..but unfortunatley we didnt hve colonial power..so we stayed limited to kerala.

But we hve always stayed part of hindu culture...which can be understood by the dress code of our older generations,..the architecture of our churches,homes...our lifestyle,.even food.

Our churches resembled hindu temples...most orthodox churches in the medieval kerala were built by patronising hindu kings..even today kings like the great Shaktan Thampuran of thrissur is remembered with great respect by the orthodox christians of kerala.
He is one who protected the indian church from the portuguese,..who treated us their worst enemies..bcos they considred us heretics,..and "intermixing wit hindus" and "adopting their customs"

If catholicism can be called "roman" catholicism..then orthodox in india is called Indian orthodox.

And today the Indian Orthodox Church has just 25 lakh members in Induia..99% of it in kerala.

The RSS chief sudarshan who came to kerala a few years back,.praised the indigenous orthodox syriac ppl(st.thomas xtians) for their cultural oneness and loyalty to motherland...even though some christians took it with jealousy and shock..and made it a point to condemn our church and sudarshan.

The Orthodox church in India does not take funds frm abroad.

Bcos of one single reason--

since 1498(portuguese arrival)..our church was fragmented into 5 diffrnt churches by foreigners.

After 1800s,.the british who came in d form of our saviours frm te roman church n portuguese(d british were anglicans,not catholics)....gave us land,some money..
but then they infiltrated our seminaries and theological centres..and influenced our Oriental Orthodox theology with western xtian protestant theology.
As a result by mid 1800s,..thr was deep division in our church and a section (5 lakhs ppl) split off and became protestants (ie Marthoma church).

In 1920s,..one of our bishops who was send to england for higher studies came back,..and was very dissapointed wen he cudnt become the Katholikka Bava(senior most rank among bishops).
He immediately went to rome ,met the pope...and came back to split us again.
almost his entire diocese(2 lakh members) in one southern district of kerala joined the Roman catholic church as an "eastern rite".

Their speciality is tht they look exactly like us,.theuir churches,their bishops,prayers etc....so our ppl are confused ,..and they hve much more institutions,money etc..and so many of us joined them.But they r basically roman catholics with some of our customs.


So in a 500 year history..foreigners hve brought us only division and destruction.
Our church managing committee has nw made it a point to stop any sort of funds frm abroad--except frm expatriate indians of our church abroad.
Bcos such funds bring strings with it,..and also missionaries and westerners,interested in weaning away our people.

Our church also doesnt believe in personal evangelism...we dont go around asking to accept Jesus.We believe true conversion happens voluntarily and by a person who is impressed/attracted to our theology.

After reading this, my heart went out to these people.

Missionary activity in India, and the deliberate targeting of the economically weak and uneducated by missionaries, is causing resentment among the common people, specially because of the methods these men use (fraud, bribery, coercion, murder, they will stoop to any extent to gain converts). This resentment is unfortunately directed against the Syrian Christian community, which is, in fact, indigenous to India, and which has been mostly loyal to India, even through the bad times.

It is an irony of ironies that Christian missionary activity from outside has brought alienation to India's own Christians.

[Asher]

India is way too boring to warrant so many threads in the OTF. You have exceeded the tolerable quota.

[Nikolai]

Yet another Indian state has introduced conversion laws.
Article

Himachal Pradesh: anti-conversion law “useless and politically motivated”
by Nirmala Carvalho
The Bishop of Shimla, Mgr Mathias, told AsiaNews that the law seeks to put a stop to Church activities for the most vulnerable members of society. But he assured that this service would not stop even in the face of attacks by fundamentalists.

Shimla (AsiaNews) – A “useless” law approved solely “for political means” by a group of politicians who did not even bother to submit evidence to back their accusations. This is what the Bishop of Shimla, Mgr Gerald Mathias, thinks about the enactment of an anti-conversion law in the northern state of Himachal Pradesh.

The law approved by Parliament in December was signed yesterday by the governor V.S. Kokje. Himachal Pradesh has thus become the first Indian state led by the democratic Congress Party to approve a law on conversions. Sonia Gandhi, Congress leader, last year wrote to the country’s Christian community to say that her party was against such laws. What’s more, analysts have said MPs approved the law without presenting substantial reasons to back their decision.
The bishop of Shimla told AsiaNews: “Approving this law was totally unnecessary. Congress professes to be a secular party but it has approved this law that discriminates against religions. There have been absolutely no cases of forced conversion on a large scale. Even Dalits here are very few. This law will serve politicians to make people forget about real problems of the state and to focus attention on non-existent conversions.”

According to the stipulations of the decree, continued the bishop, “converting women and persons belonging to Dalit and tribal communities is punishable by three years in prison and high fines. This is a means to block the missionary and social activities of the Church, which helps the most vulnerable members of society with its health care centres and schools.”

The Church of Himachal Pradesh, like the rest of India, “is at the service of the poor and oppressed. If fundamentalists want to strike us with their words and actions, let them do so. But we will continue our work because ultimately truth will prevail. The most important thing for us is that the poor whom we serve know our real intentions and feelings.”

Christian convert beaten up for refusing to go back to Hinduism:
Article

Christian beaten for refusing to go back to Hinduism
The attack took place in the Indian state of Assam. A man who converted to Christianity after marrying a Christian Tribal woman was victimised by his own community for refusing to reconvert. For a local priest attacks like this are orchestrated by Hindu fundamentalists who claim that all Tribals must be Hindu.

Mumbai (AsiaNews) – Rahbindra Narzaree, a Christian convert, was beaten last week by his fellow Hindu villagers for refusing to “reconvert” to Hinduism. The attack occurred in Bashbari village, Kokrajhar district, in north-eastern Indian state of Assam. Mr Narzaree converted two years ago after marrying a Christian woman from the Bodo tribe.

Since Mr Narzaree converted his family has been ostracised by the local community. Under pressure from his fellow villagers he reconverted to Hinduism but later declared he remained a Christian.

At last Tuesday’s village council, the elders pressured him to return to Hinduism; however, when he refused, they denounced him. Some of the villagers, armed with sticks, attacked the couple and broke down a portion of their humble mud house. Both husband and wife fled the village and sought taken refuge in the police sub-station.

Although the local law enforcement agency has not detained those responsible for the attack they did post a team of officers near the house of Mr Narzaree’s brother to prevent further violence.

“Again this is the work of fundamentalist groups,” said Fr Tom Mangattuthazhe, from the diocese of Diphu. “These groups claim that indigenous tribes in [India’s] North-East are all Hindus. But this is not true. Their aim is to set community against community on irrelevant issues so as to better control them.”

Hindu extremists beat up Christian missionary women:
Article

Hindu extremists beat up Christian missionary women
by Nirmala Carvalho
The four women belong to Gospel for Asia. Their attackers, including a local policeman, are activists from the Sangh Parivar.

Mumbai (AsiaNews) – Four Christian missionary women were badly beaten by Hindu extremists in the northern Indian state of Haryana. Two clergymen were also hurt in the February 4 attack by Sangh Parivar activists. All the victims belonged to Gospel for Asia, which reported the incident.

Open attacks like this one against women are quite rare. K.P. Yohannan, founder and president of Gospel for Asia, told Assist News Service, that “Hindu religious fundamentalists have been making every possible attempt to stop all Christian work in this state for some time, these fundamentalists routinely target Christians, and now they are even attacking women.”

The four missionary women—Vanmala, Lata, Udaya and Ramita—were working in the area for about a year. Four days ago Hindu fundamentalists met them and told them to vacate immediately the house in which they were staying and call their supervising pastors, who came right away to the home.

The women and the pastors were still inside the building when hundreds of people surrounded the house.

A group of the fundamentalists broke into the house and attacked the women and the two pastors who had come to their assistance.

One of the attackers, a policeman, used his police stick against the women; others slapped and kicked them.

When the attackers left, the women sought refuge at a nearby Gospel for Asia-affiliated church.

Gospel for Asia officials have not filed any formal complaint for the time being, but they did inform the local Superintendent of Police.

The Sangh Parīvār is a network of Hindu organisations that share the same Hindutva or Hindu nationalist ideology whose raison d’être is the protection of India’s Hindu identity.

I'd say extremists, both political based and among the general populace, is just as dangerous, if not more.

[aneeshm]

What I am truly saddened by is that the nice balance Christianity had found within India, in the form of the Syrian Christians, who were nicely integrated for over eighteen hundred years, was shattered by the coming of the imperialist Christians, and is still being destroyed by these vile missionaries.

[Barnabas]

The worst casualty of the missionary activity in India.....



The practice of sati?

[Spec]

Thought this was about the missionary position...

Spec.

[molly bloom]

Oh look, I think I found the real point of the thread:

The RSS chief sudarshan who came to kerala a few years back,.praised the indigenous orthodox syriac ppl(st.thomas xtians) for their cultural oneness and loyalty to motherland .

And who might the R.S.S. be, I wonder ?

Syriac Christians- where do you think their 'motherland' could be ?

Somewhere in the Middle East, perhaps ?

http://sor.cua.edu/Intro/index.html

By the way, the usual 'we got it first stuff' about the Apostle Thomas is, as per, only tradition, and nothing like an objective fact.

Mr 'Everything Comes From India' ('The royal family? Indian! Have arranged marriages, live in the same house and all work for the family business. Indian!')

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/articles/g/goodnessgracious_66601650.shtml

Let's hear it for the Coopers...

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by molly bloom

Oh look, I think I found the real point of the thread:

You didn't, actually.

Originally posted by molly bloom

And who might the R.S.S. be, I wonder ?

Syriac Christians- where do you think their 'motherland' could be ?

Somewhere in the Middle East, perhaps ?

When Sudarshan praises someone for his loyalty to the motherland, he is referring to their loyalty to India and its ideals. He is saying that the Syriac Christians are the ones who have integrated (they do not refer to themselves as Syriac, they think of themselves as Indian Orthodox).

Originally posted by molly bloom

By the way, the usual 'we got it first stuff' about the Apostle Thomas is, as per, only tradition, and nothing like an objective fact.

Does a difference of a few years here or there really matter? You're missing the essential point.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Yet another Indian state has introduced conversion laws.
Article

Himachal Pradesh: anti-conversion law “useless and politically motivated”
by Nirmala Carvalho
The Bishop of Shimla, Mgr Mathias, told AsiaNews that the law seeks to put a stop to Church activities for the most vulnerable members of society. But he assured that this service would not stop even in the face of attacks by fundamentalists.

these sort of laws are a disgrace and would shame any civilized nation.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm

You didn't, actually.

Yeah, I did.

But we hve always stayed part of hindu culture...

Snooze.

they do not refer to themselves as Syriac, they think of themselves as Indian Orthodox

Are you sure ?

The Orthodox,syriac christian ppl in india are the descendants of those who revolted that day.

Are you sure they're sure ?

Does a difference of a few years here or there really matter?

Nah, of course dates and facts don't matter.

We're talking propaganda, not history, after all.

You're missing the essential point

Oh no, I got it loud and clear.

[Colon™]

Indians converted by missionaries.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by C0ckney

these sort of laws are a disgrace and would shame any civilized nation.

A law which bans conversion by force or fraud or bribery is a disgrace to a civilised nation? What definition of civilisation are you using, exactly?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by molly bloom

Nah, of course dates and facts don't matter.

We're talking propaganda, not history, after all.



Oh no, I got it loud and clear.

The point I was trying to make, which is one you are deliberately trying to miss, is that a well-integrated community is being alienated due to missionary activity, missionary activity which they themselves do not approve of.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by aneeshm


A law which bans conversion by force or fraud or bribery is a disgrace to a civilised nation? What definition of civilisation are you using, exactly?

Force bad. Bribery? One could also call that "incentives." It may not be particularly pretty, but I fail to see how it should be illegal!

"No, Mr. So-and-so, you cannot convert to another religion because we don't think you're converting for the right reason." I wonder, will this law be enforced merely to prevent the perfidious muslims and/or christians from forcefully converting people, or will it be used to make damn sure there are Hindu majorities where certain people want there to be Hindu majorities? [cue Jeopardy music]

-Arrian

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian


Force bad. Bribery? One could also call that "incentives." It may not be particularly pretty, but I fail to see how it should be illegal!

"No, Mr. So-and-so, you cannot convert to another religion because we don't think you're converting for the right reason." I wonder, will this law be enforced merely to prevent the perfidious muslims and/or christians from forcefully converting people, or will it be used to make damn sure there are Hindu majorities where certain people want there to be Hindu majorities? [cue Jeopardy music]

-Arrian

The slightest sliver of common sense will tell you that anti-conversion laws never work. People convert anyway. This is supposed to give the state a means of stopping people who use force, fraud, or bribery to convert people.