GM - Yes or No?

[DanS]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Schmeisser's case for instance was only dismissed by Canadian Supreme Court, he lost battles on the way. And a considerable number of farmers (no estimate is known to me, sorry) decided to rather pay the fee before waging a war against a multi-national giant fore years.

I think you'll have to admit that the reason most farmers use Roundup-Ready seeds is something other than Monsanto's phalanx of attorneys. You're focusing way too much on the margins and losing sight of the whole.

If your goal is to bash Monsanto for being a profitable company (as it seems some leftists in Europe have fallen into), I guess focusing on Monsanto's attorneys is a good exercise. But that doesn't mean that you're doing anything meaningful.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
1/10

Actually, I thought my post was reasonably insightful. Or at least what passes as insightful on Poly.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by DanS
I think you'll have to admit that the reason most farmers use Roundup-Ready seeds is something other than Monsanto's phalanx of attorneys. You're focusing way too much on the margins and losing sight of the whole.

I have repeatedly said that I acknowledge this. However, it is still illustrative how the big producers go for complete control. It is simply outrageous when don't have an option anymore.

And I've also said that this is just one of many problems within a larger context. There's no need to deny that it seems/is a rational choice for many farmers to introduce the crop - it wouldn't work if it weren't.

If your goal is to bash Monsanto for being a profitable company (as it seems some leftists in Europe have fallen into), I guess focusing on Monsanto's attorneys is a good exercise. But that doesn't mean that you're doing anything meaningful.

The problem is not being profitable, the problem is with what politics Monsanto (and others) use to reach that point. I cannot stand beside hoping that they don't want to harm anyone. We need better controls.
Lamentably, US politics acts like a corporate lobbie for that matter, making pressure on others to disregard their objections and doubts.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by DanS


Actually, I thought my post was reasonably insightful. Or at least what passes as insightful on Poly.

Geronimo already kind of brought me out of my anti-troll hiding hole. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you.











See, Kuciwalker, how civilized people can discuss?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Thrid world countries can't afford GM crops to begin with, so they aren't being taken away. GM crops are more expensive and don't allow farmers to save grain for the next planting.

this is not correct for all grains.

and it is cheaper in the long run, since you are free of worries about pests or weather, and you also make better use and more profit from what ever expensive GM crop you buy. Thus - the wealth is increasing.

The only purpose of GM food is to make GM companies rich. I don't see why we need to have this stuff foisted upon us when it produces no real benefits.

This is a very idiotic claim Che.

Every product has two purposes. One is - fulfilling its main role. The other one - making its creator rich.

Drugs are also made to make companies rich.
I guess we should stop producing drugs then

Wait - what about condom companies? Do you think that they are there to save people from STDs or pregnancies? No, they ain't. They want to make profit.

Do you know that millions are allergic to latex or plastic?
Do you know that many poor quality condoms break even with proper use??
But the condom companies keep silent!

The entire sexual revolution, and pre-marital sex fad, is a consumerism trick by evil condom companies, bent on quick dirty profit

And honestly - who had the most to profit from the creation of AIDS?

TEH EVIL CONDOM COMPANIES!!!!

Down with condoms

[Kuciwalker]

I don't want to deal with your stupid bull****.

xpost

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I have repeatedly said that I acknowledge this. However, it is still illustrative how the big producers go for complete control. It is simply outrageous when don't have an option anymore.

Yes you do.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

this is not correct for all grains.

and it is cheaper in the long run, since you are free of worries about pests or weather, and you also make better use and more profit from what ever expensive GM crop you buy. Thus - the wealth is increasing.

The only purpose of GM food is to make GM companies rich. I don't see why we need to have this stuff foisted upon us when it produces no real benefits.

This is a very idiotic claim Che.

Every product has two purposes. One is - fulfilling its main role. The other one - making its creator rich.

Drugs are also made to make companies rich.
I guess we should stop producing drugs then

Wait - what about condom companies? Do you think that they are there to save people from STDs or pregnancies? No, they ain't. They want to make profit.

Do you know that millions are allergic to latex or plastic?
Do you know that many poor quality condoms break even with proper use??
But the condom companies keep silent!

The entire sexual revolution, and pre-marital sex fad, is a consumerism trick by evil condom companies, bent on quick dirty profit

And honestly - who had the most to profit from the creation of AIDS?

TEH EVIL CONDOM COMPANIES!!!!

Down with condoms

Claiming that GM is bad because some companies make some grains infertile is stupid.

Oh, wait, teh eevil Monsanto hold guns to farmers heads to force them to buy their seeds.

[Solly]

We need to GMify LordChives.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I don't want to deal with your stupid bull****.

xpost

Impressive. I had not yet figured out that you're so poor in mind that this language is your last resort.

[Wernazuma III]

Oh, wait, teh eevil Monsanto hold guns to farmers heads to force them to buy their seeds.

Again, there is a good number of lawsuits and legal threats against farmers.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
and it is cheaper in the long run, since you are free of worries about pests or weather, and you also make better use and more profit from what ever expensive GM crop you buy. Thus - the wealth is increasing.

This is not true - at least at the current state of things. GM crops are individually designed only for very special purposes - like resisting roundup herbicide. Roundup ready soja has no better chances to face special regional problems than conventional crops; even less because regional sorts will be much more adapted to local conditions.

Every product has two purposes. One is - fulfilling its main role. The other one - making its creator rich.
Drugs are also made to make companies rich.
I guess we should stop producing drugs then [...]

First, of course we have to control all kinds of industry, including, if you want to stay with the example, condom producers; and we're doing it. There are regulations about which substances are not allowed in products etc.; and the industry is liable (generally speaking; there are enough holes in the net, lamentably)

But it is not possible to compare this with the GM food debate. Because I cannot chose whether or not to consume GM food directly or indirectly (via pork who ate GM food). This would be even very difficult if GM food had to be specially labeled.
So this is having a completely different impact, and possible negative effects may well be irreversible, thus its a larger issue.

The comparison with drugs was better although it has another serious problem: this world would still work well without GM food (there is no shortage of food), while without drugs we'd obviously have a serious problem.
But beside that, there are many similar problems with pharmaceutic companies as with Monsanto&Co, e.g. prematurely released drugs, resulting in serious damage to patients. Exactly the experience with the pharmaceutic giants should teach us that we always have to be aware and control those who do everything to maximize their profit as long as you let them.

To return your polemic last question: Would you want to abolish legal restraints for drug companies?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
this is not correct for all grains.

Actually it is, regardless of whether they are terminator seeds or not. The farmer signs a contract which doesn't allow him to save seed if he wants to use the GM crops.

Now, of course, the farmer is free not to use the GM crop, but with increased yields of food that will have to be destroyed anyway, if the farmer doesn't use the GM crops, he'll have even less to sell at a lower price. So he's screwed either way.

Thus - the wealth is increasing.

Who's wealth? Not the farmers'.

The only purpose of GM food is to make GM companies rich. I don't see why we need to have this stuff foisted upon us when it produces no real benefits.

This is a very idiotic claim Che.

Every product has two purposes. One is - fulfilling its main role. The other one - making its creator rich.

Drugs are also made to make companies rich.
I guess we should stop producing drugs then

Are there non-drug products that do the exact same thing? No.

GM foods add no benefits, do not increase the wealth of humanity, but transfer it from poor farmers to rich corporations. GM food isn't healthier or tastier. It isn't better for the environment. It doesn't make marginal land bloom. It isn't going to stop the 3rd world poor from starving to death.

So why would farmers switch? Well, for one thing, competition forces them, since GM foods do have increased yields. Again, we have more than enough food on this planet. We have so much damn food we can feed our food animals food rather than let them forage. We have so much food we have to destroy huge quantities of it to keep prices at a level where companies can make a profit. But there's no profit in feeding people without money.

The other reason farmers switch, however, is that the GM companies bought up the seed banks, and took older seeds off the market. Even if you wanted to use a non-GM seed, unless you want to go totally organic, it's not much of an option anymore.

BTW, not every product makes its creator rich. How much has Linus Torvalds made off of Linux?

[Zoid]

No Frankenfoods!!

[Az]

I was waiting for someone to use that idiotic name...