GM - Yes or No?

[RedFred]

It isn't the GM process I am against, it is the uses that agribusiness is putting it to that is my objection. Right now the main focus seems to be making GM food that tolerates way more pesticides than natural produce.

Frankly, I think that the place to put all the GM foods is here:

http://images.clubzone.com/company/images/2246.jpg

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by RedFred
Right now the main focus seems to be making GM food that tolerates way more pesticides than natural produce.

That means that farmers won't lose as much of their crops to pests Teh horror!!

[Solly]

Originally posted by LordShiva


That means that farmers won't lose as much of their crops to pests Teh horror!!

I am quite surprised at how the liberal-left has turned against the poor in recent years.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by LordShiva
That means that farmers won't lose as much of their crops to pests Teh horror!!

Not only does the massive use of pesticides kill local ecosystems completely, settlements close to large agricultural areas where, e.g. roundup-ready soja is produced have huge problems with polluted water, and massive health problems, esp. the children. Nobody compensates.

Secondly, even more than ordinary monocultures, GM crops are more likely to cause total loss because of other reasons. Most often, regional sorts have much more adapted to local problems, something a large scale GM production can't do.

And that's just two problems, others include (but this is also true for hybrid crops):
that farmers are made completely dependent: Farmers have a contract that doesn't allow any legal action against the producers of seeds in case of crop loss etc., even if there should be a problem.
Farmers who don't use GM crops are coerced to use it or be sued because due to natural cross-breeding, they can't evade that the licensed genetic sequences come to their own crops - that's crazy, but it happens all the time!

Contrary to what is being told, most GM crops have not been sufficiently tested to judge what they may cause in the environment (including allergies).


So, I don't think that genetic research or the possibility of GM food in itself is bad, but how it is pushed now, the socio-economic consequences it brings along etc. Farmers find themselves in a new form of feudalism, their lords being Pioneer and Monsanto.

Only when the state controls more and defines better frames within which the companies have to operate, this is a good concept for the future. It doesn't help when half a dozen ex-Monsanto managers are in over very close to the US government.

[Cort Haus]

GM

The pro-organic fad in the UK has lead to GM food being considered as some kind of poison, and the technology seems effectively outlawed, in real terms.

I gather that organic farming is only possible on a small scale because we couldn't feed the world with it if it was standard. So it's basically a western luxury, while the world's poor are denied access to the technology they need.

Liberal foodies

[Spec]

Yes....

and no.



Spec.

[DanS]

Originally posted by RedFred
It isn't the GM process I am against, it is the uses that agribusiness is putting it to that is my objection. Right now the main focus seems to be making GM food that tolerates way more pesticides than natural produce.

This is true. However, Roundup-Ready is the main instance where GMOs are used in this manner. From what I know, glyphosate, the active ingredient used in Roundup, is a good pesticide. It breaks down in the environment quickly and has little impact to insects and animals.

[snoopy369]

GM

[snoopy369]

btw, the "while you're waiting" quote for that post:
[q="waiting"]Mencken and Nathan's Sixteenth Law of The Average American:
Milking a cow is an operation demanding a special talent that
is possessed only by yokels, and no person born in a large city can
never hope to acquire it. [/q]

appropriate

[RedFred]

So... No one liked my GM Place joke.

[b etor]

post a picture next time, not a link.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
GM

The pro-organic fad in the UK has lead to GM food being considered as some kind of poison, and the technology seems effectively outlawed, in real terms.

I gather that organic farming is only possible on a small scale because we couldn't feed the world with it if it was standard. So it's basically a western luxury, while the world's poor are denied access to the technology they need.

Liberal foodies

This argument is one of the silliest promoted by Monsanto & Co.:
1st: There's enough food produced on this earth to feed much more than today's population. The problem is distribution.
There's no problem with normal large scale crop production, in fact this is being done. GM is not so old and has not yet conquered all crops and we're still not starving. So, small scale my a...
2nd: Come back when GM crops manage to survive Sahel zone droughts. GM crops are no actually LESS resistent to local/regional problems because they have not been selected over the years to react to environment. And since poor farmers have to buy seeds again each year, they're driven into yet more poverty.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DanS


This is true. However, Roundup-Ready is the main instance where GMOs are used in this manner. From what I know, glyphosate, the active ingredient used in Roundup, is a good pesticide. It breaks down in the environment quickly and has little impact to insects and animals.

I wonder if it would be possible to determine if less of the persistent pesticides are used in areas that use Roundup-Ready crops.

[DanS]

That would be an advanced analysis. AFAIK, the pesticide market surveys, such as Doane's, don't contain information down to localities. More just aggregate figures.

In any event, if I'm understanding where you're going with this, it's a good point that even if you're using more glyphosate, you may be using less of another product. The total pesticide load on the environment may actually go down.

Roundup-ready seeds have reduced drastically the market for some pesticides with which I am familiar. Especially in the soybeans market. Almost all soybeans are Roundup-ready here in the States. The switchover was very fast -- under a decade.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Doddler


I am quite surprised at how the liberal-left has turned against the poor in recent years.

Hell, I'm on the left and I, sadly, can't disagree with you. It seems like ever since the late 1960's the Left has become dominated by upper-middle class brats and yuppies.