Are you embarrassed by your parents?

[Jon Miller]

I guess I am just a lot more tolerant than you. Maturity has nothing to do with tolerance. There have been incredibly mature people who were homophobes, racists, etc, etc, etc. The anti-racist and anti-homophobe cultural values are relatively recent cultural values and most (?) haven't held them in the past. Definitely other cultures currently don't hold them. Since it has been a very recent cultural shift, it is reasonable and expected to have some who haven't shifted along...

It is the height of arrogance to think that most americans are more mature than most people in many other nations. In fact, despite our tolerance, I think that we are less mature than many other groups of people.

Jon Miller

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I guess I am just a lot more tolerant than you. Maturity has nothing to do with tolerance. There have been incredibly mature people who were homophobes, racists, etc, etc, etc. The anti-racist and anti-homophobe cultural values are relatively recent cultural values and most (?) haven't held them in the past. Definitely other cultures currently don't hold them. Since it has been a very recent cultural shift, it is reasonable and expected to have some who haven't shifted along...

It is the height of arrogance to think that most americans are more mature than most people in many other nations. In fact, despite our tolerance, I think that we are less mature than many other groups of people.

Jon Miller

I think it might how we define maturity. I dont think it is a mature action to dislike people based on race, etc etc. And if you make consistent actions that are immature then you arent mature.

[Tuberski]

No, I'm not a teenager anymore.

ACK!

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MRT144


I think it might how we define maturity. I dont think it is a mature action to dislike people based on race, etc etc. And if you make consistent actions that are immature then you arent mature.

Once more, you are saying that entire cultures are less mature than us. Maturity is about responsibility. Not about how 'correct' our culture is.

You mixing the meanings devallues maturity.

Jon Miller

[Saras]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpuyDKeeRlw

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Once more, you are saying that entire cultures are less mature than us. Maturity is about responsibility. Not about how 'correct' our culture is.

You mixing the meanings devallues maturity.

Jon Miller

not really. Im not saying americans are the height of maturity, im saying in our culture it is not mature to dislike people based on race, sexuality, etc etc.

[Jon Miller]

Recent Cultural Shift.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

For example, a lot of old people, even the ones who were racist for their day, would be considered so now. Defining maturity based upon views towards homosexuality and race means that most the young people are very mature... and most older people have a long ways to go.

Doesn't this suggest that something is wrong with how you are viewing maturity?

Jon Miller

[MRT144]

its a factor of maturity but it isnt the only one.

[Jon Miller]

It isn't a factor in maturity. Only thing that it has to do with maturity is that it is something that we teach many of our kids.

Jon Miller

[MRT144]

says you.

[Jon Miller]

What you are saying doesn't make sense, as I earlier pointed out. There is no correlation on the whole, between racism/homophobia/etc and the more standardly recognized signs of maturity.

This suggests that, on the whole, those are just tacked on by our current culture. While yes, one must be mature within the culture one exists in. It is easy to recognize some things that seem more universal.

Additionally, my point about cultural shift still stands. Our culture has shifted towards tolerance in the last half century. As such, there is a lack of uniformity... and that should go hand in hand with our views of who is mature (in other words, we should consider more univseral definitions, than the culture of those who are in their 20s).

I actually think that going by reasonable definitions of maturity, most americans are becoming mature at later and later ages. This is especially true in the college age set, but is pretty universal as well. And no, I am not refering to physical maturity.

Jon Miller

[MRT144]

Maybe for younger people (ME) maturity is coming to terms with the fact that we're all human and discriminating based on genetic factors is a bit absurd and short sighted.

Maybe Im so forward thinking it doesnt make sense.

[Jon Miller]

It's because you can't see outside of the bounds of your own culture.

It's OK, being able to do so isn't a sign of maturity.

Jon Miller

[MRT144]

relativism isnt maturity. Im not saying that.