Muslim group places bounty of of 5,00,000 Rs. on the head of author critical of Islam

[Fake Boris]

WTF???

Brachy said that if Muslim countries tend to be tyrannical, it's because Muslims actually "want it".

I replied with a primitive troll, asking him if the thought the Russian people had wanted their tyrans.

[Fake Boris]

Oh, I see - he meant that Palestinians have elected Hamas.

I'm not engaging into this discussion - the reasons for this sad turn of event should be obvious to anyone with the least brain.

[RGBVideo]

To be fair, if USSR would still exist that logic would make sense.

Oh, I see - he meant that Palestinians have elected Hamas.

I didn't -- I was too hasty and tried to get you caught from BS without reading the thread properly. Sorry

[Drake Tungsten]

its 11,000$, and we don't even have pictures of her.

$11,000? Well worth the trouble...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drixnak
communist loving, weak minded Euroscum.

Ah yes, now that's more like EyesOfNight's trolling style. That or GP's, but GP is usually funny in his trolls.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. Its not for me to decide whether the COE is authentic Christianity or not, seeing as I aint got no stake in the virgin birth. Ditto wrt Muslims.
2. What core Muslim religious belief do Khalilzad, Kharzai, etc not hold?
3. A committee of 150? Well thats pretty far from the one loud unequivocal voice.

1) You are quite capable of studying historic Christianity and comprehending that the virgin birth and divinity of Christ are indeed central doctrines, even if you are not a Christian yourself.

2) Apparently, the part that says "Make war and slay the infidels wherever you find them" (ie, the "verse of the sword" that is believed to nullify moderating statements in other passages of the Koran).

3) OK, then where is the dissenter in the committee of 150 who offered this bounty who speaks out against it?

[Straybow]

Sorry, I should quote it accurately: "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush" (Sura 9.5).

[aneeshm]

You want quotes? You've got 'em. Even if they be completely devoid of context (and thus may even be slightly misleading), they still make a damn strong case, considering just how many of them there are.

1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6

2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10

3. Allah has blinded the disbelievers. 2:17-18

4. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

5. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 2:90

6. Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61

7. Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes. 2:65-66

8. If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85

9. Allah has cursed them for their unbelief. 2:88

10. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89

11. Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96

12. Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98

13. Only evil people are disbelievers. 2:99

14. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104

15. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114

16. "And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119

17. Disbelievers are losers. 2:121

18. Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126

# Those who die disbelievers, are cursed by Allah, angels, and men. 2:161

# The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162

# They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167

# Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind. 2:171

# Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174

# How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175

# Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178

# Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

# Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193

# Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206

# War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

# Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

# Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221

# The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers. 2:254

# Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

# Allah does not guide disbelievers. 2:264

# "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 2:286

# Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4

# Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10

# Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12

# Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21

# "They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24

# The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131

# Give us victory over the disbelieving folk. 3:147

# We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151

# "Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?"
Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 3:162

# Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176

# Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177

# Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196

# Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14

# For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:18

# For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37

# Allah has cursed them for their disbelief. 4:46

# Those who ascribe a partner to Allah (like Christians do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit) will not be forgiven. They have "invented a tremendous sin." 4:48, 4:116

# Those who invent lies about Allah are guilty of flagrant sin. 4:50

# Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. 4:51

# "Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed." 4:52

# Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55

# Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56

# Those who refuse to follow Muhammad, follow false gods and are deceived by Satan. 4:60

# Those who refuse to believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad are hypocrites. 4:61

# Oppose and admonish those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:63

# The hypocrites refuse to die for Allah and Muhammad. 4:66

# Those who obey Allah and Muhammad are favored by Allah. They are the best company. 4:69

# Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74

# Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76

# Allah casts the hypocrites back to disbelief. Don't try to guide those that Allah sends astray. 4:88

# Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

# If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91

# Believers shouldn't kill believers, unless by mistake. If you kill a believer by mistake, you must set free a believing slave. 4:92

# Believers who kill believers will go to hell. 4:93

# The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101

# For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a shameful punishment. 4:102

# Relent not in pursuit of the enemy. They have no hope from Allah. 4:104

# Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115

# They (those who ascribe partners to Allah) invoke in his stead only females and pray to Satan. 4:117

# Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell. 4:119-121

# Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137

# For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138

# Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140

# Allah will not allow disbelievers to succeed against believers. 4:141

# Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144

# The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145

# You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151

# For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1

# Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86

# Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a a painful doom. 5:94

# Disbelievers will say when they see the Fire that they would have believed if they had known the truth. But they are all liars. 6:27-28

# Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49

# Stay away from those who "meddle with" or mock the Quran. 6:68

# Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70

# When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93

# Stay away from idolaters. 6:106

# Allah confounds the hearts and eyes of unbelievers. 6:110

# Most unbelievers are ignorant. 6:111

# Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113

# The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157

# Disbelievers lose their souls. 7:9

# Allah has made devils the protecting friends of disbeliveers. 7:27

# Disbelievers choose devils as protecting friends and believe they are rightly guided. 7:30

# Only believers go to heaven. 7:32

# Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 7:36

# Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 7:40-41

# Those in the fire will be taunted by those in the Garden. "So how's it going down there? Are you enjoying the warmth of the Fire?" 7:44

# Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 7:50

# Disbelievers are liars. 7:66

# Allah turns Jews into apes! 7:166

# Those who deny Muhammad's revelation are evil. 7:177


# Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 8:14

# When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 8:15-16

[Barnabas]

Is that turning jews into apes quote meant to be literal?

As in there are monkeys that used to be jews?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. Its not for me to decide whether the COE is authentic Christianity or not, seeing as I aint got no stake in the virgin birth. Ditto wrt Muslims.
2. What core Muslim religious belief do Khalilzad, Kharzai, etc not hold?
3. A committee of 150? Well thats pretty far from the one loud unequivocal voice.

1) You are quite capable of studying historic Christianity and comprehending that the virgin birth and divinity of Christ are indeed central doctrines, even if you are not a Christian yourself.

2) Apparently, the part that says "Make war and slay the infidels wherever you find them" (ie, the "verse of the sword" that is believed to nullify moderating statements in other passages of the Koran).

3) OK, then where is the dissenter in the committee of 150 who offered this bounty who speaks out against it?

1. I can decide that at various points major christian churches held particular beliefs. The question is, what are the legitimate ways for those beliefs to evolve, such that changing those beliefs does or does not put one outside the limits of authentic Christianity. I KNOW that there is debate on such questions within Judaism. I gather that there is such debate within both Christianity and Islam.
2. Is that a central belief in Islam? Wherever you find them? Since they have allowed Jews and Christians to live under Muslim rule as Dhimmis since the time of the early Caliphs, and they have signed treaties and lived in peace on the borders under the Ottomans, etc it would seem that historically that is NOT central belief, or at least it was not to mainstream Sunni Islam. It apparently IS a central belief to the Salafi-Jihadis, but thats not the point.
3. I dont know there is a dissenter in this group of 150.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Is that turning jews into apes quote meant to be literal?

As in there are monkees that used to be jews?

Peter Tork, apparently.

[lord of the mark]

Here we come, walkin'
Down the street.
We get the funniest looks from
Ev'ry one we meet.
Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

We go wherever we want to,
Do what we like to do
We don't have time to get restless,
There's always something new.
Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

We're just tryin' to be friendly,
Come and watch us sing and play,
We're the young generation,
And we've got something to say.

Any time, or anywhere,
Just look over your shoulder
Guess who'll be standing there

Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

(break)

Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

We're just tryin' to be friendly,
Come and watch us sing and play,
We're the young gneration,
And we've got something to say.

Hey, hey, we're the monkees
Hey, hey, we're the monkees
[repeat and fade]

Extra verse:

Hey, hey, we're the monkees,
You never know where we'll be found.
So you'd better get ready,
We may be comin' to your town.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. Its not for me to decide whether the COE is authentic Christianity or not, seeing as I aint got no stake in the virgin birth. Ditto wrt Muslims.
2. What core Muslim religious belief do Khalilzad, Kharzai, etc not hold?
3. A committee of 150? Well thats pretty far from the one loud unequivocal voice.

1) You are quite capable of studying historic Christianity and comprehending that the virgin birth and divinity of Christ are indeed central doctrines, even if you are not a Christian yourself.

2) Apparently, ... the "verse of the sword" ...

3) OK, then where is the dissenter in the committee of 150 who offered this bounty who speaks out against it?

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. I can decide that at various points major christian churches held particular beliefs. The question is, what are the legitimate ways for those beliefs to evolve, such that changing those beliefs does or does not put one outside the limits of authentic Christianity. I KNOW that there is debate on such questions within Judaism. I gather that there is such debate within both Christianity and Islam.

I didn't say "outside the limits" I said "mainstream." The few denominations that tolerate scholars and clergy who deny those things are moribund (CofE being a classic example). Denominations that deny them are typically classified as "cults" (eg, Jehovah's Witnesses).

2. Is that a central belief in Islam? Wherever you find them? Since they have allowed Jews and Christians to live under Muslim rule as Dhimmis...

Except that Dhimmis are, by definition, not idolators and therefore may be spared the sword. It is at the whim of the leader under whose "protection" they fall. If People of the Book are not Dhimmis, living outside Islam under their own governance, then they are Dar al Harb, subject to the sword. It has been thus "since the time of the early Caliphs."

Nowhere does it say there cannot be cease fires, peace treaties, even alliances of convenience. However no polity outside Islam is truly considered sovereign and equal to Islamic polity.

3. I dont know there is a dissenter in this group of 150.

There is no evidence of dissent among the "committee" nor among the community. No actual leader of the Muslim community in India raises a voice against them. That's my point.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Straybow
[Q] Originally posted by Straybow
[Q] Originally posted by lord of the mark
1

2. Is that a central belief in Islam? Wherever you find them? Since they have allowed Jews and Christians to live under Muslim rule as Dhimmis...

Except that Dhimmis are, by definition, not idolators and therefore may be spared the sword. It is at the whim of the leader under whose "protection" they fall. If People of the Book are not Dhimmis, living outside Islam under their own governance, then they are Dar al Harb, subject to the sword. It has been thus "since the time of the early Caliphs."

Nowhere does it say there cannot be cease fires, peace treaties, even alliances of convenience. However no polity outside Islam is truly considered sovereign and equal to Islamic polity.

They also allowed Hindus, Buddists, and Jains to live under Muslim rule.

As for ceasefires and soveriegnty, the Ottoman empire was no more continuously at war with its Christian neighbors than Christian states of the era tended to be with each other. The Sultan had a hard time accepting Westphalian notions of equal soveriegnty among states, but then so had the HRE at an earlier time, and Chinese emperor. In any case that was all theoretical - in practice the OE made and broke ceasefires for the same reasons as other states. They certainly did not, in practice, and often not in rhetoric, take the position of Al Qaeeda of actually engaging in constant warfare against non-muslims. ISTM that since 1920, those muslims who have rejected that notion are just as entitled to call themselves mainstream, if not more so, than are the AQniks and other Qutbists.

To decide otherwise is to privilege an interpretation based on nominal, occasional rhetoric over centuries of actual practice, and again, Im not going to judge another religious tradition like that.

Certainly, as far as I can tell, even most muslims who DONT affirm the political positions of a Kharzai or a Khalilzad, also DONT view them as heretics, as having differed from mainstream islam. The notion that they are is itself NOT a mainstream position in Islam, and is held by a minority - again, the Tafkiris.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. Its not for me to decide whether the COE is authentic Christianity or not, seeing as I aint got no stake in the virgin birth. Ditto wrt Muslims.
2. What core Muslim religious belief do Khalilzad, Kharzai, etc not hold?
3. A committee of 150? Well thats pretty far from the one loud unequivocal voice.

1) You are quite capable of studying historic Christianity and comprehending that the virgin birth and divinity of Christ are indeed central doctrines, even if you are not a Christian yourself.

2) Apparently, ... the "verse of the sword" ...

3) OK, then where is the dissenter in the committee of 150 who offered this bounty who speaks out against it?

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. I can decide that at various points major christian churches held particular beliefs. The question is, what are the legitimate ways for those beliefs to evolve, such that changing those beliefs does or does not put one outside the limits of authentic Christianity. I KNOW that there is debate on such questions within Judaism. I gather that there is such debate within both Christianity and Islam.

I didn't say "outside the limits" I said "mainstream." The few denominations that tolerate scholars and clergy who deny those things are moribund (CofE being a classic example). Denominations that deny them are typically classified as "cults" (eg, Jehovah's Witnesses).

So its all about counting heads? Some denominations are growing because of higher birth rates, some because of active missionary programs in Africa. The number of Pentecostals is rising relative to the number of Catholics. Does that mean that every day Pentecostalism is becoming more mainstream and Catholicism less so? Thats interesting sociologically. And sociologically speaking, few Muslims would deny that you can take Kharzais position and still be a good mainstream Sunni muslim. Whether they are "authentic" in that belief is not a sociological question anymore.

Why should it matter to me what you call a cult? Relative to Judaism, Christianity is a cult, merely one that is large in numbers.