The Evolution of Outer Space Aliens

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DaShi


Ants could form a collective intelligence, but it's response time would be significantly slower than any single intelligence.

Are you referring specifically to ants or to *any* ant sized organism?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Insects "breathe" through tiny pores in their exoskeleton. The largest insect ever was a type of dragonfly that was less than a foot long. The insect repiratory system simply can't deliver enough oxygen to sustain a brain big enough to be intelligent. Likewise I don't think that an ant-sized critter could be inteligent. Their brains wouldn't have enough neurons.

This just means that organisms that breathe through tiny pores in their exoskeletons will not get very big if they use oxygen at a rate comparible to the animals we have experience with.

I'll concede that chemically based life will probably need to exchange at least one substance with it's environment at a relatively high rate so there is little point in my suggesting that oxygen might not be essential.

Why would their brains have to have neurons sized like our own? How about bacterial sized neurons? Or possibly even life that superficially appears to be acellular or even truly organized in an entirely acellular way?

The problem with speculating about alien life is that we have no way of knowing how universal the various elements of life on earth are.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Yup, I'd venture to say life everywhere will turn out much like what we see here.

Opposable thumbs

It would be interesting to see how relatively small differences in gravity effect life

You think earthlike conditions are typical?

You don't believe the evolution of life on earth was exquisitely tailored to the environment it was evolving in?

[The Mad Monk]

The human brain consumes about 20% of our daily calorie intake all by itself. The sort of precludes all the really energy intensive activities like flight.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
The human brain consumes about 20% of our daily calorie intake all by itself. The sort of precludes all the really energy intensive activities like flight.

Why so? Just decrease the amount of time spent in flight by an appropriate percentage and daily caloric intake needn't change greatly to accommodate a larger caloric ration for the brain.

For the record I wonder how much of the daily calorie intake is consumed by the brains of comparatively intelligent birds like corvids or parrots.

[Geronimo]

Re: The Evolution of Outer Space Aliens

Originally posted by Sn00py

Can we advance only under water?
What if gravity were 10x stronger, or 10x weaker?
What if humans were able to fly? (with wings)

Would we have advanced?

What exactly did you mean when you asked "Can we advance only under water?"?

[Dauphin]

I think he means that if you are stuck being underwater (e.g you are fish or aquatic mammal or somesuch) can you advance technologically.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dauphin
I think he means that if you are stuck being underwater (e.g you are fish or aquatic mammal or somesuch) can you advance technologically.

The question makes some sense now.

I suppose the only difference it would make would be that the lifestyle would have to give ready access to the seafloor for tool use if we assume materials other than those derived from other organisms will be needed.

[Perfection]

I don't feel bad for dead bugs.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Perfection
I don't feel bad for dead bugs.

Do you feel bad for the ones that still live but are injured in some possibly horrific way? Or maybe for the ones that are physically unharmed but have been emotionally dragged through the wringer?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Are you referring specifically to ants or to *any* ant sized organism?

I'm just responding to Dr. Strangelove's post about the difficulty of insects' forming intelligence.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DaShi


I'm just responding to Dr. Strangelove's post about the difficulty of insects' forming intelligence.

Ok, he just said "ant-sized" rather than literal ants.

I think a collective of ant-sized organisms could exhibit rapid processing (intelligence) if they had a means of sufficiently rapid signal propagation between the individuals. There is no reason it would have to be slower than human cognition.

[DaShi]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Geronimo
Why would their brains have to have neurons sized like our own? How about bacterial sized neurons? /quote]

I don't think you realize just how small bacterial cells are compared to animal cells.

The problem with speculating about alien life is that we have no way of knowing how universal the various elements of life on earth are.

That's where physics comes in.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DaShi


That's where physics comes in.

So? how would it force the collective intelligence of ant-sized critters to be slower than human cognition?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Ok, he just said "ant-sized" rather than literal ants.

So he wasn't talking about insects?

I think a collective of ant-sized organisms could exhibit rapid processing (intelligence) if they had a means of sufficiently rapid signal propagation between the individuals. There is no reason it would have to be slower than human cognition.

And what would lead you to think this?