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If you're not a criminal/terrorist you have nothing to hide in your computer

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  • If you're not a criminal/terrorist you have nothing to hide in your computer

    so it's perfectly ok if the government is able to search your computer without your knowledge

    German cops and spooks prep own spyware
    By Matthias Becker
    Published Tuesday 27th February 2007 11:31 GMT

    Analysis Germany's police and secret services are pushing for a legal basis for "online house searches" – carried out without the knowledge of suspects, using spyware similar to a Trojan.

    The German public learned of the practice in November last year, when a magistrate of the Bundesgerichtshof (Federal High Court) ruled that there is no legal basis for such measures as part of police inquiries.

    Magistrate Ulrich Hebenstreit argued that house searches could only be carried out openly, with the knowledge of the suspect. In his view, and legal parlance, secretly searching a hard drive, whether in private or for commercial use, constituted "a major interference with the right to informational self-determination".

    Moreover, because all data can be viewed and analysed by the authorities – from private photos to email correspondence – the suspect's right to refuse to give evidence was violated by the measure.

    Hebenstreit's decision received mixed response.

    While the Home Office (http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_028/nn_12...html__nnn=true) stressed that it immediately stopped online searches, spokesman Christian Sachs says: "One organisational unit at the Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Criminal Office) is currently working on the technological basis for such online house searches. For obvious reasons, we cannot comment on the technicalities."

    Minister of the Interior Wolfgang Schäuble intends to introduce a law to legalise the practice (http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_028/nn_12...H__Urteil.html).

    In fact, the measure, and online security in general, plays a major role in his imminent "programme for the strengthening of public security" (http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_012/nn_12...icherheit.html).

    "The internet of today is a training camp, and an open university for terrorists," Schäuble says.

    Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) president Jörg Ziercke believes the "Federal Trojan" (as the project has been dubbed by the public) is necessary because confiscating physical hard drives is almost useless. "They store their data on the internet and encrypt the hard drive. That is why we have to have access at the point of dissemination."

    He said 99.9 per cent of German internet users will "have nothing to with this".

    How often German law enforcers have tried to infect the PCs of suspects with Trojans is unclear. While the BKA talks about "only a few cases", Minister of Justice Brigitte Zypries, of the Social Democrats, knows of (http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/24/24664/1.html) "four requests for online house searches so far".

    However, the government, in an answer (PDF in German) (http://dip.bundestag.de/btd/16/039/1603973.pdf) to a written parliamentary question, says so far there have been no online house searches at all, because one request was rejected by the responsible judge, while another attempt failed because of "technical difficulties".

    Influential German hacker organisation The Chaos Computer Club (http://www.ccc.de/?language=en) published a statement (http://www.ccc.de/updates/2007/online-durchsuchung) pointing to the possible consequences of successful infection with a Federal Trojan.

    "The whole PC could be telecommanded, the webcam turned on, and the room surveilled acoustically, email and chat conversion could be followed."

    However, the hackers are skeptical about the real danger posed by the spyware, and dryly recommend that "a well managed firewall and anti-virus software should take care of governmental or private spyware".

    Mr Padeluun, a spokesperson of the data protection association FOEBUD (http://www.foebud.org), says the whole debate is nothing but a "smoke screen".

    "As long as we are talking about Trojans, the danger is quite small. Another question, however, is if security agencies might soon be allowed to bug a computer with small hardware, which is far more difficult to detect." ®


    © Copyright 2007
    Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
    Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
    giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

  • #2
    CCC for Victoryyyyy!!!

    The worst argument ever is 'you have nothing to hide'. This is why... ok I won't say who, but anyway got into power anyway.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

    Comment


    • #3
      My God, that is disgusting that they would attempt this - it is a gross violation of privacy. Do what the police always do, get a warrant to search. I wouldn't be surprised if our government got ideas from this.
      Speaking of Erith:

      "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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      • #4
        I'm not a (major) criminal/terrorist but I've certainly got things that I want to hide on my computer....

        Comment


        • #5
          Like what?
          Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
          Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
          giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

          Comment


          • #6
            So I guess the government won't mind if we do some probes as well? Since no one has nothing to hide, it's free for all I guess. Oh. That was just for me? Damn it. That's convinient.
            In da butt.
            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Most people have something to hide, since most people is criminals these days. I alone have more than 50 gigs of mp3s on my NAS disc, and I can assure you not all of that comes from my dad's extensive(like a few hundred, or so it feels) CD collection. So the authorities are wrong.
              Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
              I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
              Also active on WePlayCiv.

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              • #8
                Isn't this just a logical progression of the monitoring and other police powers European citizens have let their governments have?
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                • #9
                  DD, you mean like national phone tapping?
                  In da butt.
                  "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                  THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                  "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pekka
                    DD, you mean like national phone tapping?
                    No. I mean the fact you could be arrested and held without charge for at least 2 weeks without it being a big deal in most European countries, nationwide CCTV, ability to ban speech altogether, etc.
                    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Right.. where do you have 2 weeks thing without charge in Europe? I can't recall a single country? I do know a coutnry where you can be held forever without a charge though

                      In most European countries? I'm calling you on this one.

                      Ability to ban speech altogether? You mean 'hate speech'? I'd agree with you there. Also, there was this one dude in Germany who denied holocaust and went to jail for a pretty long time. Germany even tried to enforce this whole holocaust denial thing into EU. They might be not fascist anymore, but they still use the same tools
                      In da butt.
                      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pekka
                        Right.. where do you have 2 weeks thing without charge in Europe? I can't recall a single country?
                        The UK.
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Really? Is that true? That would sound something that would be against 'EU spirit' if there is a such thing. Is that some kind of new anti terror law? I bet it's one of those. It's not that I'd agree with such laws, I do find it quite disturbing, but it should be noted Britain isn't 'most of Europe'. It's also the CCTV nation you mentioned.

                          I don't know, Britain and individual freedom, I haven't much given it a though. I don't know how truly intrusive they are with privacy and stuff.
                          In da butt.
                          "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                          THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                          "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            THIS IS JUST HOW THE NAZIS STARTED!!!

                            [/godwin]

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tim_Augustus
                              THIS IS JUST HOW THE NAZIS STARTED!!!

                              [/godwin]
                              ~AHEM~
                              who the hell are YOU?!?
                              Order of the Fly
                              Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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