Questions on Jewish & Christian Beliefs

[Darius871]

To start, this isn't an invitation for subjective theological mudslinging, it's an inquiry about the actual historical record in Europe and the pre-Islamic Near East.

1) If someone of non-Hebrew ethnicity were to believe that the Tanakh was a product of divinely inspired prophets but that Jesus and Muhammad were false prophets, could this person be accurately classified as Jewish?

2) If someone were to believe that Jesus was indeed a human manifestation of the supreme being (in other words god's spirit inside a human body, or even a thorough 'blend' of the two) as opposed to a "son" that is a distinct entity within a trinity, is/was there a certain sect of Christianity - likely considered heretical by anyone adhering to rulings of past ecumenical councils - into which this person could be classified?

*ducks*

[VetLegion]

*elephants*

[VetLegion]

I named a bigger animal, I win? Or did I misunderstand this thread?

[Jon Miller]

2. There are groups of Christians which are pretty heretical by traditional standards.

JM

[Zkribbler]

Re: Questions on Jewish & Christian Beliefs

Originally posted by Darius871
If someone of non-Hebrew ethnicity were to believe that the Tanakh was a product of divinely inspired prophets but that Jesus and Muhammad were false prophets, could this person be accurately classified as Jewish?

Sounds like Sammy Davis, Jr. He was referred to as Jewish.

[Zkribbler]

In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit. Since the 4th century, in both Eastern and Western Christianity, this doctrine has been stated as "one God in three persons," all three of whom, as distinct and co-eternal persons, are of one indivisible Divine essence, a simple being. Supporting the doctrine of the Trinity is known as Trinitarianism. The majority of Christians are Trinitarian, and regard belief in the Trinity as a test of orthodoxy. Opposing, nontrinitarian positions that are held by some groups include Binitarianism (two deities/persons/aspects), Unitarianism (one deity/person/aspect), the Godhead (Latter Day Saints) (three separate beings) and Modalism (Oneness).

Thus spake the living god, Wikipedia.

[Barnabas]

Re: Questions on Jewish & Christian Beliefs

Originally posted by Darius871
To start, this isn't an invitation for subjective theological mudslinging, it's an inquiry about the actual historical record in Europe and the pre-Islamic Near East.

1) If someone of non-Hebrew ethnicity were to believe that the Tanakh was a product of divinely inspired prophets but that Jesus and Muhammad were false prophets, could this person be accurately classified as Jewish?

2) If someone were to believe that Jesus was indeed a human manifestation of the supreme being (in other words god's spirit inside a human body, or even a thorough 'blend' of the two) as opposed to a "son" that is a distinct entity within a trinity, is/was there a certain sect of Christianity - likely considered heretical by anyone adhering to rulings of past ecumenical councils - into which this person could be classified?

*ducks*

1) You wouldnt be a jew unless you converted to Judaism.

To be a jew you either have to be the son of a jewish woman, or a convert to judaism.

2) You would be a heretic
If I recall correctly the heresy which says, there is no trinity, God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit are just only one person playing three roles is called modalism.
There was also a heresy which believed Jesus was just God, inside a human flesh costume, and not that jesus was fully man and Fully God, it had a name which I cant remember.
What you believe in surely has a name, in civfanatics there is a poster who knows a lot about church history in the history forum

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
2. There are groups of Christians which are pretty heretical by traditional standards.

JM

No offense, but that common knowledge doesn't begin to answer the question...

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Sounds like Sammy Davis, Jr. He was referred to as Jewish.

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
1) You wouldnt be a jew unless you converted to Judaism.

To be a jew you either have to be the son of a jewish woman, or a convert to judaism.

To take this a step further, do ethno-religious Jews accept (by and large) non-ethnic converts like Davis as "Jews," and thereby members of God's "chosen people"? Or are they more often snickered at as wannabes? Can this be clearly delineated as a mere reform vs. orthodox debate? (LOTM, I'm looking in your direction )

[Jon Miller]

"Arius taught that God the Father and the Son did not exist together eternally. Further, Arius taught that the pre-incarnate Jesus was a divine being created by (and possibly inferior to) the Father at some point, before which the Son did not exist. In English-language works, it is sometimes said that Arians believe that Jesus is or was a "creature"; in this context, the word is being used in its original sense of "created being"."

Beleifs similiar to this are common in many Christian churchs. My own has proponents of something similiar to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

JM

[Barnabas]

Read my definition of jew in my post above yours

btw

My jewish friend refuses to accept Madonna as a jew

[Jon Miller]

"Historical controversies concerning denial of Christ's human nature
The Council of Nicaea reject theologies that entirely denied the humanity of Christ, affirming in the Nicene Creed the doctrine of the Incarnation as a part of the doctrine of the Trinity. That is, that the second person of the Trinity became incarnate in the person Jesus and was fully human.

This understanding of the Trinity rejected theologies that denied the humanity of Jesus. Included among these was the understandings of some Gnostic groups, who held to a Docetic theology. Docetism (from the Greek verb "to seem") taught that Jesus was fully divine, and only "seemed" or appeared to be human.

Following the Council of Nicaea, theologians often sought to make sense of the interplay of the human and divine in the person of Christ while upholding the doctrine of the Trinity by denying, in part or in whole, the humanity of Christ. Various forms of Monophysitism taught that Christ only had one nature; that the divine had either dissolved or taken the place of the human in the person of Christ. Notable Monophysite theologians included Eutyches (c. 380-456 CE) and Apollinaris of Laodicea (d. 390 CE).

Monophysitism was rejected as heresy at the Council of Chalcedon. As theologians continued to reach a compromise between the Chalcedonians and the Monophysites, other Christologies developed that partially rejected the full humanity of Christ. Monothelitism taught that in the one person of Jesus there were two natures, but only a divine will. Closely related to this is Monoenergism, which held to the same doctrine as the Monothelites, but with different terminology. These positions were declared heresy by the Third Council of Constantinople (the Sixth Ecumenical Council, 680-681 c.e.)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christology

Sorry about making two posts.

JM

[Barnabas]

"In Christianity, Sabellianism (also known as modalism or modal monarchism) is the belief that the Heavenly Father, Resurrected Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God (for us only), rather than three distinct persons (in Himself)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

[ZEE]

are any of you going to add YOUR input, or just quote other stuff?

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by AAHZ
are any of you going to add YOUR input, or just quote other stuff?

Who did I quote?

[ZEE]

well vet...

you really DIDNT add anything realistic to the discussion, so you werent WORTH mentioning frankly...