68 killed in terrorist attack on train

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm


So does the entire basis of Christianity. Ever read about the Islamic view of the world? It's much more fantastic than anything we could dream up.

Never said they weren't. If anything, this further goes to prove my point.

At least our myths and epics have a solid philosophical foundation. At least our epics are internally consistent - there is a hierarchy and order to all things. We didn't make up our theology and philosophy after the fact. Our entire cultural mythology is composed to bring out the principles which were expressed by our philosophers. In out land, theology and myth bow to philosophy, not the other way around.

But they are just myths. You can agree with that.

That is why I expect that in the next few decades, there will be a second Puranic period, where new mythological stories and new stories bringing out the new and the changed in the religion, showing the direction in which we must proceed in order to progress, will be written. It's already begun - you can see Ashok Banker's and Samit Basu's work as the heralds of that new age.

We can renew ourselves by "updating" our mythology to make it relevant again and again and again. Can anyone else do that?

Like Scientology.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi

Never said they weren't. If anything, this further goes to prove my point.

What was your point, exactly?

Originally posted by DaShi

But they are just myths. You can agree with that.

Not really. There's also the entire theology behind them, which makes them more than just myths. They're the intellectual commons of an entire culture. The human story, the drama, the power, the beauty, and the grandeur of the epics is something I find near impossible to convey. If you're really interested, you can PM me, and I'll give you the details of what to read as an introduction.

It's difficult to make you understand, but there is a way in which Indians (irrespective of religion) just grok the epics, and anything explained in their terms. The bond is so close that it could be compared to something genetic. We can immediately identify with them in a very fundamental way, as if they were members of our family.

Originally posted by DaShi

Like Scientology.

I don't think Scientology has the world's most complex ethical and moral systems as its foundation.

[Kuciwalker]

Complexity is not a positive feature in any logical system. Simplicity, elegance, and above all conformance to natural human impulses are.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Complexity is not a positive feature in any logical system. Simplicity, elegance, and above all conformance to natural human impulses are.

The essentials of the most complex system can be expressed in four assertions. Four. That's it.

All the complexity is when you work out their logical implications, or to help the newcomer understand it. Once you understand it, those four lines are all you need. Until then, all the other stuff is necessary. The rest of the complexity is working out how to apply the system, which is essentially pure philosophy, to the world, from whose observation it was derived.






Here are the four assertions:

Ayamātmā brahma (This Atman is Brahman)
Prajñānam brahma (Brahman is Knowledge)
Tattvamasi (That thou art)
Aham brahmāsmi (I am Brahman)

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm


What was your point, exactly?

That they're not so different. See your quote below.

Not really. There's also the entire theology behind them, which makes them more than just myths. They're the intellectual commons of an entire culture. The human story, the drama, the power, the beauty, and the grandeur of the epics is something I find near impossible to convey. If you're really interested, you can PM me, and I'll give you the details of what to read as an introduction.

It's difficult to make you understand, but there is a way in which Indians (irrespective of religion) just grok the epics, and anything explained in their terms. The bond is so close that it could be compared to something genetic. We can immediately identify with them in a very fundamental way, as if they were members of our family.

But you don't think they are real, right?

I don't think Scientology has the world's most complex ethical and moral systems as its foundation.

I'm sure Hinduism started with just as humble means. Give Scientology time. It's Golden Age has yet to arrive.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm
The rest of the complexity is working out how to apply the system, which is essentially pure philosophy, to the world, from whose observation it was derived.

In other words, it's all made up.

[DaShi]

But really, the more aneeshm explains Hinduism, the more it sounds like a form of early Scientology that just managed to grab a lot more people. Maybe it's just him.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi

But you don't think they are real, right?

I believe that the incidents narrated in the epics really happened, minus most of the miraculous bits. For instance, I believe that there were people named Rama and Ravana, and that Ravana ruled Lanka and Rama ruled from Ayodhya, and that the two had a fight and that Rama won, and a number of other details. I don't literally believe in everything. But that's not the real point. The real message is the ideals conveyed through that epic, the values it exalts. That's the message I take away.

With time, as the reverence for these historic people grew, so did the traditions surrounding them. When the epics were written, they had become standard. Lots of things are later interpolations, but are not any reduced in stature for that.

Originally posted by DaShi

I'm sure Hinduism started with just as humble means. Give Scientology time. It's Golden Age has yet to arrive.

Not going to happen. Scientology never had a foundation. Hinduism does. Even Christianity and Islam have some foundations.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi


In other words, it's all made up.

Not really. If it works, you can realise it. If it doesn't, you can realise that it doesn't work. The methods for testing it out are given, plain as day. Try it out sincerely. If it doesn't work, try out some other Yoga which suits you more, out of the four main (Karma, Raja, Bhakti, Jnana). If none of them work, then start over and try to work things out for yourselves, and how other people can realise what you did. The tools for self-inquiry are also provided, if you'd care to use them. That's what these people did, after all, and the result of their search is the Yoga traditions we have before us.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm


I believe that the incidents narrated in the epics really happened, minus most of the miraculous bits. For instance, I believe that there were people named Rama and Ravana, and that Ravana ruled Lanka and Rama ruled from Ayodhya, and that the two had a fight and that Rama won, and a number of other details. I don't literally believe in everything. But that's not the real point. The real message is the ideals conveyed through that epic, the values it exalts. That's the message I take away.

With time, as the reverence for these historic people grew, so did the traditions surrounding them. When the epics were written, they had become standard. Lots of things are later interpolations, but are not any reduced in stature for that.

So much like many historians view the Bible.

Not going to happen. Scientology never had a foundation. Hinduism does. Even Christianity and Islam have some foundations.

Define foundation.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Not really. If it works, you can realise it. If it doesn't, you can realise that it doesn't work. The methods for testing it out are given, plain as day. Try it out sincerely. If it doesn't work, try out some other Yoga which suits you more, out of the four main (Karma, Raja, Bhakti, Jnana). If none of them work, then start over and try to work things out for yourselves, and how other people can realise what you did. The tools for self-inquiry are also provided, if you'd care to use them. That's what these people did, after all, and the result of their search is the Yoga traditions we have before us.

I have done it. That's how I revolutionalized Buddhism (I am the reincartionation, didn't you know. ). And, I'll be the first to admit that it's all made up.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi


I have done it. That's how I revolutionalized Buddhism (I am the reincartionation, didn't you know. ). And, I'll be the first to admit that it's all made up.

Really? You're a Rajayogin? I find it impossible to believe that you could ever be a Bhakta, either.

[aneeshm]

One thing I noticed when reading the Old Testament's most famous mythical and semi-historical portions is that the characters are rather lifeless, not really fleshed out as human beings. Their character, their emotions and motivations, is not really portrayed in any depth. It's like a very dry narrative, almost as if someone was trying to make it sound boring. They have tremendous epic potential, but somewhere someone seems to have said, screw it, let's just write plot summaries.

Why is that? This is a question that just popped into my mind while thinking about this thread, nothing much to do with the original topic.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by MRT144
why are there bars over the windows on the trains?

I think they deter hitchikers and bandits.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MRT144
Those illustrations are ridiculous.

But quite colorful.