Cover me in debt, debt to the eyeballs (or advice on buying a shoebox in England)

[Arrian]

Sorry to hear things fell through for you, Cort.

Speaking of "less desirable" places... there's always the USofA

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

He's not that desperate.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Doddler
Prices won't rise in real terms in the next five years.

Possibly true, although I think the consensus estimate is more they'll be small real-terms rises, something around the 2%pa mark. Very different from a crash too - usually there has to be reasonably stron negative price movement to cause negative equity.

With house prices it's reasonably safe to bet on continued small rises, but large rises can't go on forever, even in North London.

Originally posted by Cort Haus
our vendor now wants to adjust the price in line with recent crazy rises. This could mean another £50,000 on the original £295,000, according to one estimate, since it was put on the market last year.

£50,000 in six months! Now we are truly buggered. The final chance in our lives, probably, to get on the property ladder and it slips through our fingers - mainly because of stupid delays by a useless solicitor.

There is an adage here that is very useful to you - something is only worth what someone else will pay for it. It doesn't matter what the market has done, at the moment you are the prospective buyer. If it's true (as it seems so), simply say to the sellers "I can't afford anymore, this is already at the top of our budget, therefore if you want more, you'll have to put it back on the market". Given their troubles selling it, I doubt they'd be so happy to, as while prices have gone up, there is a tendency to exaggerate that (ie. since £50k is the highest estimate, they may add that to it, when actually the market's gone up nearer £20k, for example). This means they may find it very hard to find a buyer willing to pay quite so much more.

It's a lot of hassle putting it back on the market, and given that they, as well as you, have had issues in moving, they may be wanting a quick sale. Given the option between a buyer already willing to exchange contracts at £295k, and putting it back on the market at probably £320k or so, that might end up with them selling at £310-315k, I can imagine they might just choose the former.

The bottom line is, they're trying to squeeze you for more money, without any extra hassle to them (if you pony up). If (as it seems) you can't afford more, simply say to them that you can't afford any more as you're already at the limit of what you're able to get a mortgage on. This makes them realise it's not two options that are equal except in how much money they get, but that to get more money they'd have to go through the whole process again. Especially with Home Information Packs coming in June.

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Another option, though, is to empty out all my PEP and ISA savings that were supposed to be part of the retirement plan. I'll still have something in a pension fund. The bank has advised against raiding these funds, but then they would, wouldn't they? After all, they are making money from them. I'd rather die of starvation at 65-70 because of no income at that age than to live a bitter, broken existance between now and then.

Tbh, given that you'll own a house, and that you have plenty of time to save for retirement, it's not too much of an issue. Moreover, you can simply make the lifestyle choice to get a nice house using retirement funds, but to pay more each month into a retirement plan, so as to make up for it, thus spending less on day-to-day things.

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, and John Prescott and his bleeding cronies have done next to nothing way too damn late to prevent this situation occurring. The rate of new construction has been painfully slow and should have been much further on than it is now. The government has failed to act and are potentially precipitating a major problem.

Surely there are enough private developers to contain a housing shortage if there's enough demand? I don't see why the government has any place in this?

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I'm afraid you're going to have to be a bit more pragmatic than that. I've avoided living in daft areas because of that very reason...Blackheath or Greenwich, for example, may be very nice locations but they are shockingly expensive.

Really?! I always thought Greenwich was quite cheap, comparitively. I mean, sure, not compared to being much further out, so working further out it makes sense to live further out, but I always thought it was a lot cheaper than in anywhere more central. I was tempted to look at Greenwich, though probably for the year after next.

Originally posted by Arrian
Sorry to hear things fell through for you, Cort.

Speaking of "less desirable" places... there's always the USofA

Actually, I have thought of that - higher wages, lower house prices = better quality of life, especially as there's enough diversity that I'm sure I can find a place I broadly fit in. However girlfriend is having none of it - she'll be a doctor in a couple of years and is adament that she'd never, ever, practice medicine in the USA. And yes, it's a relatively new relationship, but still, means I wouldn't think of it anytime soon.

Definitely tempting though.

[Arrian]

Actually, I have thought of that - higher wages, lower house prices = better quality of life, especially as there's enough diversity that I'm sure I can find a place I broadly fit in.

Yep. We call it "New England." And there's always the Pacific Northwest...

she'll be a doctor in a couple of years and is adament that she'd never, ever, practice medicine in the USA

The land where the HMOs roam!

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

At this point I'd like to thank everyone for their comments and feedback. It's warmly appreciated.

Drogue, your point about haggling is in line with some of my thoughts on this today. We have no chain behind us, as we are renting and have done all the searches and legal stuff required to clear the way for their sale. That must be worth something.

Update : I just spoke to our vendor who said that their initial assessments of price adjustment may have been too high, which was welcome news.

I'm also very quickly coming round to the idea that ISA savings would be worth sacrificing at this point. If I was as young as some of you chaps I could afford to risk waiting 5, 10 or more years for another crash, but at my age I can hardly afford to wait another year or two.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


The place we were going for was on the border of Chalk Farm and the less-lovely Kentish Town West (one of London's dingiest places since the days when Marx lived there).

Far better to buy a place in a Kentish town than in Kentish Town.

[Cort Haus]

What, Dartford, Gravesend ? Euurgh.

Some Local History : Kentish Town apparantly gets its name from Caen Ditch - referring to the branch of the Fleet River which came down from Highgate Ponds in Caen Wood (now Kenwood). It's now underground, running the length of the high street and meeting the other branch in Camden Town before heading off through Kings Cross, Farringdon, and down to Ludgate Circus and the Thames.

It divided The City from Westminster and of course gave Fleet Street it's name.

Five music venues that I've played at - the Bull & Gate and the Bullet Bar (prev. The Verge) in Kentish Town, The Laurel Tree in Camden Town (possibly deceased), The Water Rats in Kings Cross, and the Betsey Trotwood in Farringdon are all alongside the route of the now underground river. It may be no coincidence that these pubs were originally sited by the old river, but odd that so many of them became music venues. The Electric Ballroom in Camden Town is another (much larger and newer) venue that happens to be above/by the river. Almost spooky.

Oh, and the flat we were trying to buy was by the course of the other branch of the Fleet coming down from Hampstead ponds.

By contrast the local history of Gravesend : Plague pits and Pocahuntas?

[Solly]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Well like many of the younger posters here it is nigh on impossible for me to save the kind of money for a deposit, let alone be able to afford a mortgage with current prices.

You're competing against people who can use their parents house as collateral, double-income households, and risk-takers. Not going to be easy.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp



Green belt isn't the problem, and it's a principle that I think is worth keeping.

What is the problem is the hundreds of thousands of habitable yet abandoned properties. That's the solution.

Ah, this old line again. The properties tend to be habitable but the areas inhabitable.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Drogue

Possibly true, although I think the consensus estimate is more they'll be small real-terms rises, something around the 2%pa mark. Very different from a crash too - usually there has to be reasonably stron negative price movement to cause negative equity.

A consensus estimate is pretty meaningless in a market that has been proven to be very volatile. And I'd take a look at who is making those estimates..

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Doddler


Ah, this old line again. The properties tend to be habitable but the areas inhabitable.

Yes, that's right.

[MikeH]

Got an offer accepted on Saturday. yay/panic. The people we're buying from are buying a new build so hopefully it'll be relatively smooth. *fingers crossed*

[Arrian]

Heh. I'm buying from people who are building a new house. When I asked them about our closing date, I got "we're really on our builder to make the date... [worried look]"

-Arrian

[DanS]

Originally posted by Drogue
Actually, I have thought of that - higher wages, lower house prices = better quality of life, especially as there's enough diversity that I'm sure I can find a place I broadly fit in. However girlfriend is having none of it - she'll be a doctor in a couple of years and is adament that she'd never, ever, practice medicine in the USA. And yes, it's a relatively new relationship, but still, means I wouldn't think of it anytime soon.

Definitely tempting though.

Why is she against it? Is it the long hours? You can live like a king in the US on a doctor's salary, so long as you aren't in a major city.

Really, you can live like a king in much of the US, so long as you're paid reasonably well.

This is not for everyone, of course. I do not prefer to live in such areas. I live in an outrageously expensive part of the city, but those London prices are just mind-blowing.

[Arrian]

She's probably heard some horror stories (true or not, doesn't matter) about evil HMOs and the like.

-Arrian