Cover me in debt, debt to the eyeballs (or advice on buying a shoebox in England)

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Cort Haus

Life is so cruel. I now wish more than ever that I'd never been born, and relieved that I've never inflicted the curse of life on any children of my own.

Don't sweat it. There will could well be a short-term fall in property prices in the next couple of years.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, and John Prescott and his bleeding cronies have done next to nothing way too damn late to prevent this situation occurring. The rate of new construction has been painfully slow and should have been much further on than it is now. The government has failed to act and are potentially precipitating a major problem.

Bubbles always over-expand. The housing boom in the US and now the UK are things of the past. Interest rate rises should see to that, if only the Bank of England start to do their job correctly and focus on the 2% target.

[Provost Harrison]

Yeah, and the more they expand, the bigger the pop - and all the while the government has been milking this boom on their watch and not preparing for the conclusion of this situation because they probably won't be in power!

[Solly]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, and the more they expand, the bigger the pop - and all the while the government has been milking this boom on their watch and not preparing for the conclusion of this situation because they probably won't be in power!

Exactly - as I said earlier today, reverse the situation and the Bank would have been cutting interest rates long ago had we been near to the floor of their inflation target.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, and John Prescott and his bleeding cronies have done next to nothing way too damn late to prevent this situation occurring. The rate of new construction has been painfully slow and should have been much further on than it is now. The government has failed to act and are potentially precipitating a major problem.

Nimby-ism and green belt dogma haven't helped either. The craze for 'density' and microflats make for some grim living standards for people in those new homes that are being built. People from abroad are shocked to see how small traditional housing is here, let alone the new even-smaller versions.

[Provost Harrison]

Well like many of the younger posters here it is nigh on impossible for me to save the kind of money for a deposit, let alone be able to afford a mortgage with current prices.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Nimby-ism and green belt dogma haven't helped either. The craze for 'density' and microflats make for some grim living standards for people in those new homes that are being built. People from abroad are shocked to see how small traditional housing is here, let alone the new even-smaller versions.

Another of their screw ups too - the sizes of some of the new builds I have seen are utterly pathetic - I remember going to look at one about 3 years ago (just before I moved down here), it was ridiculous! It was a one bed flat but I couldn't have fit a double bed in the bedroom, the kitchen was cramped and if I'd have had the TV I have now that would have taken up most of the room

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Yes, a cheaper area is certainly one of the pragmatic choices rearing its ugly head, but having saved for ten years with a pointed aspiration of buying in the area we love, it's a dream-shatterer to have to cast that aside having come so desperately close. Everything we want is within walking distance, and we love walking everywhere and for its own sake.

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened, that's terrible! One of the number one things about where I live now is being able to walk everywhere, including work. It's not the nicest area by far, but that's my compromise as such and the area definitely has the potential to improve as it is literally in the centre of town and right next to two affluent and popular areas...

A smaller place is another option. Because I've mostly been working from home for years a 2nd bedroom was a requirement. If I ditch the home-working (and lose the place to play the bass, record etc) things become cheaper. Again, this is a step down.

Again, ours is more of a gigantic one bed with the potential to convert the relatively dry basement into a 2nd bedroom or whatever (gamesroom!!!). If you can buy a place on the edge of where you want to be, prices there will likely end up rising to catch up faster - literally allowing you to climb the 'property ladder'. Where I live is one of the cheapest parts towards the centre of town, however about 300yds away is one of the most expensive...

The idea of sacrificing much to save for a dream becomes a nightmare when the end result is a drastic cut in living standards, rather than the intended reward. I feel like the universe has stabbed me in the back. Or should I say Capitalism?

Yeah it's no longer a dream anymore. But surely there is room for compromise, without a drastic loss of living standards? Where is this North London utopia you speak of anyway (walking distance of the Emirates Stadium?)

Another option, though, is to empty out all my PEP and ISA savings that were supposed to be part of the retirement plan. I'll still have something in a pension fund. The bank has advised against raiding these funds, but then they would, wouldn't they? After all, they are making money from them. I'd rather die of starvation at 65-70 because of no income at that age than to live a bitter, broken existance between now and then.

Well, it's not the best course but it may be worth the risk? What is the point of living frugally now, so you can live relatively well off later - you could be hit by a bus tomorrow! Also as long as you keep your pension fund, you should be financially secure at a time when hopefully you would have paid off your mortgage anyway...

Beware of the interest rates though, I would factor in a contingency where you can afford to ride the possibility of rises of at least a few % - because we have had it easy for years!

Good luck!

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


I'm afraid you're going to have to be a bit more pragmatic than that. I've avoided living in daft areas because of that very reason...Blackheath or Greenwich, for example, may be very nice locations but they are shockingly expensive.

Well, we've lived in a 'daft area' as you put it for over 10 years - and affordably - with the two of us renting and having modest expenditure in other respects. It makes a difference as a couple, and the place we've been trying to get was affordable until yesterday when our vendor lost their new place.

I'm NOT going to move to Tottenham.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Nimby-ism and green belt dogma haven't helped either.

Green belt isn't the problem, and it's a principle that I think is worth keeping.

What is the problem is the hundreds of thousands of habitable yet abandoned properties. That's the solution.

[Provost Harrison]

Yeah, that is definitely an issue that needs to be sorted. But there is also a lot of disused land in and around London that is not green belt. Also perhaps some higher construction would be in order in the denser urban areas, especially in London...I have noticed that some of the proposed buildings are getting taller and taller (ie, London Shard or Bishopsgate) but this kind of size would create a lot more groundspace. Some taller apartment blocks would also be handy - it is just a shame that the shocking examples from the 60s have made this so much more difficult.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I'm NOT going to move to Tottenham.

I was waiting for that one to take its effect...

Haringay's not so bad, I lived there at the end of Seven Sisters road for a few years when my mum moved there after I left school - though I bet you need a mortgage just to buy a zone 3 ticket these days...

[MikeH]

Currently going through the same size vs location vs price choice. I think it's an issue for everyone.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

If a property price fall narrows the gaps between property bands, I'm going to buy a bigger house.

Yes, that's "buy", Doddly.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
If you can buy a place on the edge of where you want to be, prices there will likely end up rising to catch up faster - literally allowing you to climb the 'property ladder'.

The place we were going for was on the border of Chalk Farm and the less-lovely Kentish Town West (one of London's dingiest places since the days when Marx lived there). It was a maisonette, with two proper size bedrooms rather than one of those one-room-into-two conversions that usually pass for two-beds, and at a decent price at the time relative to everything else.

Where is this North London utopia you speak of anyway (walking distance of the Emirates Stadium?)

Yes. And also within walking distance of Lords cricket ground, Primrose Hill, Regent's Park, the Zoo and St Johns Wood to the West. Belsize Park, Hampstead, Highgate and the Heath to the North. Camden Town, St Pancras, Bloomsbury, Holborn and the West End to the South. Barnsbury, Islington and as you said, The Arsenal to the East. It's hard to imagine a better spot, and I haven't mentioned the live music scene on the doorstep. There isn't one like it anywhere in the world (though I did notice a Barfly has opened in Cardiff - the original is a few doors down from me).

We'll see what new price the vendors come back with and go from there. It will probably be beyond us but as you say, some alternative compromise scenario may be a possibility.