I am tired of war

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
This is a stupid war Donegeal. There's no reason to say "oh, we're only losing X guys a day so it's not that bad!" when there's no good reason for them to be there in the first place.

And consider that them being there has been a huge problem restricting our options for dealing with Iran.

I don't disagree with you, about this. In hindsight, it was stupid to go, but there is nothing we can do about it now. Instead, people are crying to run from a mess we made with our tails between our legs. Have some resolve! We made the mess, we should fix it.

Let's learn from our mistakes. Back during the USSR invasion of Afganistan, we stuck our noses in there and helped out. The Afghans won and beat the Soviets out of their country. Then they looked to the US to help them recover and we said nope and left. We helped make the mess that was left over and didn't clean it up. Look what that caused.

If we leave Iraq now, the mess won't get better. It will get worse. Iran and Syria will move in and implement there own form of a secular government and which ever side is not in power will get oppressed just like it was before we went in. We have to stay.

[GePap]

War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh

War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all

War! huh good God
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

Ohhh? War! I despise
Because it means destruction?
Of innocent lives

War means tears
to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
and lose their lives

I said - War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War! Whoa, Lord ...
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

War! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
War! It's an enemy to all mankind
The thought of war blows my mind

War has caused unrest in the younger generation
Induction then destruction-
Who wants to die?

Ohhh? War Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it, Say it, Say it

War! Uh-huh Yeah - Huh!
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

War! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War! It's got one friend, that's the undertaker
War has shattered many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled bitter and mean
Life is much to precious to spend fighting wars these days
War can't give life, it can only take it away

War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War! Whoa, Lord ...
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

War! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
Peace Love and Understanding;
tell me, is there no place for them today?
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way

War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
You tell me
Say it, Say it, Say it

War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Stand up and shout it.
Nothing!

[Kuciwalker]

There's rational opposition to war, and then there's "war, what is it good far?" ignorance.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
There's rational opposition to war, and then there's "war, what is it good far?" ignorance.

OHHHHH... that make you feel better? Maybe you should listen to some music. The song I posted above is very catchy, a number one hit.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by GePap

War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh

War
Never been so much fun

War
Never been so much fun

War
Never been so much fun

War
Never been so much fun

Go up to your brother
Kill him with your gun
Leave him lying in his uniform
Dying in the sun

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
OHHHHH... that make you feel better? Maybe you should listen to some music. The song I posted above is very catchy, a number one hit.

I happen to like the song, actually.

[Kuciwalker]

I like "Imagine" too.

[Pekka]

Tattila, Cannon Fodder

[Pekka]

Also, about damage, yeah, the West is weak at taking damage, this we know. Not in all out war, but in these conflicts, lots of bad press, kills to morale.

But, on my last road trip in the States in 2004, I found it kind of interesting, that some places are hit really bad with these deaths of soldiers. When ever you'd go through small places, like really small towns, it seemed like they had 10 dead boys. It's really weird, I mean population like 300, but many boys dead from that place. I guess the guys still come mostly from those little unknown place.

But they weren't anonmyous there, there were pictures of them in grass fields, with flags, and messages and flowers. It was actually pretty depressing, even though it wasn't my town, and not even my country. You could see, that the ltitle town had taken a serious hit, several young men, everyone must be connected to them in that place.

It made me respect those little towns more. I don't know them, they all look same to me, but you could never doubt their readiness to do battle for the country and big cities with big dreams. I guess that's just the way they were brought, some of these little towns seemed very patriotic.

So.. that was kind of sad when you go through few of these places. It's always the same story. You have guys from small place, so they'll end up in the same unit, adn their rotation is at the same time, so if that unit has to take a lot of damage, the guys from one location takes the hit, so that's ****ed up, you'd be losing all the young guys from a small town. Not only do I disagree with that kind of troop distribution.. but.. well it makes them more fierce fighters I guess.

But we also should consider the amount of injured, whcih is always ten fold, and what MOST poeple are worried about, the huge amoun tof Iraqi casualties. They aren't taking a light hit at all. No one should bring out traffic accident figures to compare them to Iraqi casualties.

[GePap]

Certain areas have traditions of men serving in the military, and given that joining is voluntary, there will be pockets more affected by casualties than others.

Judging a war by the number of dead is only one metric to use, and of course, juding only by one set of deaths (like not actually caring about the dead and displaced Iraqis for example) is a very faulty metric.

Iraq was never going to be a bloodbath for the US, given how good battlefield medicine has gotten, and the overwhelming firepower advantage the US has. Anti-insurgency campaigns are generally not that terribly bloody for the bigger powers, but the issue of bloodshed is never really what matters.

Look at the Soviet experience in Afghanistan - over 9 years they lost 16,000 troops, which is less than a third of what we lost in Vietnam for example, and certainly for the army of a dictatorship numbering in the millions should hardly have seemed so huge a cost, but they were not achieving anything, so the deaths were a waste.

Sometimes what people die for matters more than the number of people that die.

[Pekka]

But yeah, the atmosphere in these little towns that had these dead boys, you could cut it, it was that thick. It was weird, no one was out, it was like a ghost town, I mean these really small towns. You could sense there's something wrong, I'm serious. We didn't want to stop even to eat in these places.. but mostly because we didn't want to ask anything and we thought it would be more polite to just drive through. We didn't take pictures either, because that could have been a bit disrespectful. But it was a mindtrip, because then you go and drive 100 miles up, and it's all different, people swimming, beaches, big cities coming up, no sign of war, just none, except few bumper stickers.

In this way I have a lot more respect for the small places, I mean, they aren't even fighting for like a mansion they have. They just do it because that's the way they grow up, when you hear the whistle, you go. I respect the warrior mentality, even when I mgiht think certain leaders are dumb as a bucket. Warriors

Just young guys, but their home place forever damaged. So, I also do understand if they have a mentality of stfu. I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some city hippie would come and preach me about something. Right or wrong, they're the ones who do the battle, so they're heroes for their country for sure, even though no one else would remember who they are or what they liked or what ever. I guess that's the price for warrior mentality - you can't claim it and celebrate the status. Even if you make it out, what is there to celebrate, if most of your friends didn't make it back?

[LordShiva]