Teh French are teh silly

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
2. The dumbness of my argument

Ah, it seems you agree your argument was dumb.
Then we agree.
That was my only point.
Carry on.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by LordShiva
France is attempting to regulate speech between private citizens, and even non-citizens. You think that's OK?

As far as I'm aware, the French state regulates speech between broadcasters (be they public or private) and the audience. When I play the role of a "broadcaster" (I distribute political fliers at the marketplace), I have to watch some things wrt the law. For example, I cannot give my propaganda to people younger than 16 unless they explicitely ask for it. If I was a racist, I'd also have to watch my mouth when acting as a political activist (because of our incitement laws).

In my private speech with private citizens, I can say whatever I want. My speech is free, and this freedom isn't threatened.

[Spiffor]

IMO, nobody is going to ban English from the French business newspeak. The general trend is definitely not going in that direction.

What strikes me as possible however, is that we regulate internal communication so that it necessarily includes a French translation (similar to our advertisement laws). If we did this, we'd likely have company e-mails containing half-assed translations, and that will be about it. The pro-French employees will stop whining, the pro-English employees will start whining. And that'll be it.

[Pekka]

"we regulate internal communication"
lol

[Lawrence of Arabia]

the problem is that the french cant get around the fact that they love american exports and culture and language so much - its like they eat mcdonalds, wear levi jeans, buy ipods, and then say that 'americans have no culture' and that english is invading their country. how hypocritical is that. they dont even realize how ridiculous they sound.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
French linguistic policies are very un-democratic, ask the basques, catalans, occitans, gascons, bretons, corsicans etc

perfectly democratic. Democracy is the tyranny of the majority. It is however lacking in respect for human rights.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
As someone whose native language has considerably more French loans than English ones, my ability to sympathize with these goons is limited.

It's even more funny to consider that the target of their ire, English, also can be said to contain more French loan words than 'English ones' (in the sense of pre-norman english).

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Geronimo


perfectly democratic. Democracy is the tyranny of the majority. It is however lacking in respect for human rights.

No one wants to destroy french, just give "minority languages" in France the same rights Catalan or Basque have in Spain, Welsh in Wales etc etc.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Pekka
Spec, ok. I'll accept that. But unlike you, I'm not the one preaching about world peace, holding hands together and singing songs. Unlike you, I haven't been here trying to throw personal insults just because of a disagreement, and then calling it a debate, and then later on reversing it as a 'talking to a wall'. What part of 'I'm not here to debate' do you not understand?

This thread has reached end of discussion from my part, since I've said what needed to be said (France must go). You can continue here, trying to insult everyone and somehow in the process feeling like the person with higher something. Higher anything. I guess anything would do, faster car, more money, living in a bigger city, just anything. It's time to feel good Spec, you're a champion, you can admit it to yourself. You don't even have to push other people down trying to sound like the big man, you're so awesome Go on, save the world!

When trolling shouldn't you try to elicit amusing responses from your targets? You seem to have been fixed on quashing any responses to your France bashing posts. That makes me uneasy. Is it possible that you aren't trolling and in fact have some sort of visceral hatred of France? That is messed up.

[Pekka]

My hatred for France is real. France has been a problem for few centuries now. In my top 5 of bad ideas and things France is number 2. Number 1 is Gandhi and his ways. I'm pretty sure Gandhi has French roots.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Spiffor

As far as I'm aware, the French state regulates speech between broadcasters (be they public or private) and the audience. When I play the role of a "broadcaster" (I distribute political fliers at the marketplace), I have to watch some things wrt the law. For example, I cannot give my propaganda to people younger than 16 unless they explicitely ask for it. If I was a racist, I'd also have to watch my mouth when acting as a political activist (because of our incitement laws).

In my private speech with private citizens, I can say whatever I want. My speech is free, and this freedom isn't threatened.

So could you say whatever you want on your own web page or is it only non written, non broadcast communication that is free?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Pekka
My hatred for France is real. France has been a problem for few centuries now. In my top 5 of bad ideas and things France is number 2. Number 1 is Gandhi and his ways. I'm pretty sure Gandhi has French roots.

that's more like it. Now I know you're trolling. I'm still not sure why you tried to end the exchange with spec though. maybe he wasn't your preferred target?

[Pekka]

WEll, you should realize I carry big grudge against Gandhi. You haven't read my thread about him?

[thesilentone]

Hating the fact that english is, at the moment, the lingua franca is just silly. Not just silly, wholly pointless. It's like hating the fact that the western world is economically dominant. Hate the way it came about if you want, until you realise france was doing much the same as the UK 200 years ago. If you ask me the sooner the whole planet is speaking the same language freely without restrictions the better. You don't hear germans or any other european or even world nation complaining. Why are the french so vocal? I believe it's the past glory complex, you were the numero uno for a big chunk of the middle ages and that makes people think france should be a bigger voice in the modern age. I like to think the UK has declined fairly gracefully considering the behemoth we used to be just 70 years ago, and the 200 years previous though obviously our language and to a certain extent our culture being globally accepted has eased that pain.

Regarding the businesswoman refusing to learn french I can understand both sides. It does give a bad impression, and her company should've considered that fact. However, it seems like a fairly quick decision. To be functional in french, with native french speakers in a critical business setting would take at least a couple of years, maybe that just wasn't appropriate. I did german as a second language and know nearly no french but if I were in such a position I would at least try. I just wouldn't appreciate being grilled in fast and hard french by the surely plentiful american-disliking middle management in france.

(I like france, it's a beautiful country and the language when spoken by people who are fluent is the nicest language to listen to by far so don't take any of this message to be too anti-french please)

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Geronimo
So could you say whatever you want on your own web page or is it only non written, non broadcast communication that is free?

My web page would be bound by speech laws:
- no libel
- no incitement to violence
- no incitement to hatred
I think these laws only apply if the website is hosted on a French server. At least, last time I went to a radical far-right website (hosted in the US), they felt unrestrained because of their server's location.

The blog-craze potentially creates problems in this regard. Many many bloggers are clueless about what they're allowed and not allowed to write on their blog. IIRC, the blog-hosts try to prevent problems by banning racist blogs on their own, without letting the law come with its big boots (that's the same for forums IIRC).

I haven't heard of anybody being restricted from writing a web page in a foreign language. Maybe a reductio ad absurdum of the current laws might lead to it (I don't know), but IMO it would be really unfitting ot the current climate in France.