A Palestinian Village cut in half by Israel's Wall...

[KrazyHorse]

Pay my stipend and I'll consider teaching you.

[Solly]

It's only a village, does it really matter!

[Sirotnikov]

Puh.

considering the money I'm getting from the IDF you should be paying me

Well I guess I'll have to recommend to continue treating the pals the old fashioned ways then... since I don't know any better.

[KrazyHorse]

I guess I'll have to recommend continuing to treat Israel as a second-class nation then.

[Lancer]

It takes a village to raise a wall.

[Jaguar]

Re: A Palestinian Village cut in half by Israel's Wall...

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Let's open an adult debate...

[Japher]

*snikker*

adult debate!

why don't we get the masters to open it....

[Lancer]

Like those guys who are so masterful at putting the worm on the hook?

[Whoha]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


I doubt it. Unless they plan to make it a few thousand feet high.

the wall by and large prevents them from getting past it to fire at targets deeper in israel with the shorter range rockets.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Whoha


the wall by and large prevents them from getting past it to fire at targets deeper in israel with the shorter range rockets.

No, not really. Those rockets were designed to be launched from Palestinian towns. Trying to transport them far from a village would expose the rocket launching team. Besides, most rockets have been launched from Gaza, the whole of which is sorrounded by a fence.

[Sirotnikov]

No, not really. Those rockets were designed to be launched from Palestinian towns. Trying to transport them far from a village would expose the rocket launching team. Besides, most rockets have been launched from Gaza, the whole of which is sorrounded by a fence.

There weren't any successful launches from the west bank.

The wall would be of little assistance against it anyway.


However exposing a rocket launching team is not a big worry, since they can leave their equipment and.... oh, run 200 yards and pretend to be farmers.

[Arrian]

I generally like the idea of Israel trying to disengage itself from the Palestinians. That includes the wall, though cutting right through a village is a ****ty thing to do and furthermore I don't get why you'd want to do that... is there a ridgeline right through the village or something? No, it seems more likely that it is indeed a land grab.

The problem I see is that I'm positive Israel will finish the wall but not really disengage. Many settlements will remain. There will still be airstrikes and military incursions into Palestinian territory (likely in response to this, that or the other thing) - territory already dimished by the wall. The wall's effect on security may or may not hold. The Pals may well adapt and figure out ways of hitting Israel despite the wall.

-Arrian

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Adalbertus
Politicians like to cut villages and towns. Görlitz (D) and Zgorolec (P, I hope I spelt correctly) in fact is one town cut by the border in 1945. Kerkrade (NL) and Herzogenrath (D) are historically more or less one (two towns on either side of a castle), separated by the border set in 1815.

Politicians

Yeah, Goerlitz should be 100% polish

It's Zgorzelec (PL) btw

I think Eljat (Palestine ) and Al-Akaba (Jordan) are historically one city as well.

Cutting cities in the middle is not always a bad idea. I think cutting Lwow would be a better sollution than resettling Poles from there and giving it to Ukraine. I would see no just way of solving Constantinople case but dividing it after ww1... but it hardly seems possible.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heresson

I think Eljat (Palestine ) and Al-Akaba (Jordan) are historically one city as well.

My understanding is that Eilat didnt exist prior to 1948. Aqaba was east of what was an international border between Jordan and the British Mandate Territory of Palestine, since UK spun Jordan off in 1920. The line was drawn to give all of Aqaba to Jordan, IIUC. After 1948, with Aqaba cut off by the arab boycott of Israel, the Israelis built a new town. Thus, Eilat.

IIUC there is a comparable situation in Poland. Gydnia, which was built up as a port due to the seperation of Gdansk/Danzig.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
I generally like the idea of Israel trying to disengage itself from the Palestinians. That includes the wall, though cutting right through a village is a ****ty thing to do and furthermore I don't get why you'd want to do that... is there a ridgeline right through the village or something? No, it seems more likely that it is indeed a land grab.

The problem I see is that I'm positive Israel will finish the wall but not really disengage. Many settlements will remain. There will still be airstrikes and military incursions into Palestinian territory (likely in response to this, that or the other thing) - territory already dimished by the wall. The wall's effect on security may or may not hold. The Pals may well adapt and figure out ways of hitting Israel despite the wall.

-Arrian

There are clearly some folks in Israel who envisioned the wall as a border, and hoped for unilateral withdrawl from all settlements east of the wall. Haim Ramon, then a Labour MK (recently Kadima - unfortunately embroiled in a sexual harassment scandal) certainly intended it that way. However its also certain different Israelis had different ideas - though it should be noted that the settlers have generally been anti-wall. Certainly Sharons last actions and Olmerts initial actions hinted at a plan for unilateral withdrawl from east of the wall. Note that such plans were not only opposed by the Israeli right, but have drawn skepticism from the Israeli left (i mean Meretz, not the Labour center left) which actually thought that a plan that did not involve negotiations wouldnt succeed.

The election of Hamas, the Hamas support for the few suicide attacks since early 2006 west of the green line, and the rocket attacks, kidnappings, etc, have weakened support for unilateral withdrawl. The Lebanon war, which not only seemed to prove that uni withdraw didnt work, but politicallly weakened its principle advocates, means thats dead, at least for now.

With Hamas continuing to refuse the Oslo conditions, and Abbas failing to persuade Hamas to form a unity govt that might be able to negotiate, it seems unlikely there will be real negotiations any time very soon. OTOH the govt of Israel is throwing out hints, and Rice is pushing for negotiations. So everything now depends on the state of Palestinians politics, which is now completely in the streets.

30 dead since Thursday. Chaos in Gaza.

I would have thought that would be the center of ME discussions here.

At this point Abbas' stand, if negotiations with Hamas for unity fail, is a new election. Which Hamas refuses, presumably knowing they would lose (no, I dont believe that Hamas is simply staunchly defending Pal constitutionality) If Abbas held one, and got a new govt through, I dont see how the Govt of Israel, weakened internally though it is, could refuse to negotiate. Certainly such a refusal, if supported by Peretz, would break the Labour party.

OTOH its hard to see how Abbas holds an election as long as the situation in Gaza remains what it is. And it doesnt yet seem that Dahlan and Fatah are having any success in taking back the streets from Hamas - more of a stalemate. We shall see.