God versus science

[Pekka]

I'm talking about people who think, that God has set everything according to the plan, so, following the same set of logic, illnesses are sometimes destiny, so science that combats some of those illnesses, like homo aids, well, is against God's will.

This is not abortion thread. Abortion is left out of this, because the same set of logic does not apply in that debate, so it should be left out from this thread.

So... there is a problem with that thought. If illnesses etc. are part of God's plan, like everything is, then scientists are also part of God's plan. How does one work around this? Scientific community comes up with stuff to fight all these viruses and stuff, so, if scientists are doing it against God's wish, how is it possible, since they must be part of his plan as well?

If we claim, that scientists aren't part of the plan, then God simply isn't omnipotent, or there is no comprehensive plan. If the scientists are evil, who fight God's will, then the destiny part does not apply.

So it's either science is also part of the plan, or that there is no plan.

I'd like to know how they work around this barrier? To me, it seems like a strong point, that can't be just ignored, even if it doesn't suit the view of the world where there is a plan, it is perfect, and science is bad.

[Richelieu]

God also gave the scientist the power to choose whether or not to take action and HE let the scientists know - through prophets, scriptures etc... - that His will is not to be messed with.
If the doctor cures someone that God has made sick, he is going against God's will. The fact that the doctor CAN has nothing to do with the fact that the doctor DOES.

[Proteus_MST]

I think many fundamentalist evangelical christians would explain science (at least the scientific theories which contradict the bible, like the theory of evolution) with the works of Satan who is out to deceive the humans and turn them away from the belief in the literal truth of the bible (the same satan who corrupted the catholic bible so that catholic christians follow false rituals which turn them away from god and bring them to hell)

[Jon Miller]

Sickness is the result of living in a sinful world*. If God wants to remove someone nothing would stop it, but he supports easing the burden of living in a sinful world (see the healing Jesus Christ did).

Jon Miller

* I am talking Meta, I know that sickness is caused cells not behaving correctly and bacteria and viruses. The point is that the Bible says that it exists due to sin (but not necessarily the sin of the indivual). I don't think it really relates on a scientific level.

[SlowwHand]

God made scientists, too.

[Pekka]

Richeliu, can and does doesn't make a difference. If there's a plan, it is PART of the plan. My point is, there is no plan.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Sickness is the result of living in a sinful world*.

Presumably in the Fundiverse there were no viruses in the world before Adam & Eve ate the forbidden fruit ....

[Barnabas]

Some evangelicals believe the devil created dinosaur fossils to deceive people into believing evolution

[Pekka]

Since no one read the first paragraph ..

I'm talking about people who think, that God has set everything according to the plan, so, following the same set of logic, illnesses are sometimes destiny, so science that combats some of those illnesses, like homo aids, well, is against God's will.

[Barnabas]

If God set everything according to a plan, if the disease is cured then it was his plan, and if it isnt cured then it is his plan, there is nothing humans could do to change it, everything that happens would be according to his will.

That is what calvinists believe in

[Pekka]

Right, so thus the whole point about scientists being created by God as well. SO, it is in fact not going against God's will then. Because it is part of the plan.

OR there is no plan.

The question was, how do people who believe everything is God implementing the plan and yet scientists being like these renegades, evil plan destroyers, I mean how do they logically justify their position? This is the barrier that .. ****, I already asked this as the main question, now I'm just repeating myself

[Barnabas]

Most christians believe humans have freedom

No christians that I know of think AIDS was created by God to punish homosexuals and promiscuous people.

But a christian scientist who finds the cure of AIDS may think himself, what if because of my discovery now people will be far more promiscuous (like in the 70´s), am I doing something good?

Anyway, I think he should make public the discovery

[SlowwHand]

I don't think God has a Plan that is unable to be deviated from in life. He provided humans with the ability to reason, and make decisions.

I think He did something like, here's a fork in the road. If you take this fork, this will happen. If you take the other fork, this will happen. Either choice leads to yet another fork in the road.
Now He knows where each and every fork leads, so that's a Plan, but humans make their destiny.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
He provided humans with the ability to reason, and make decisions.
.... humans make their destiny.

This to me seems the sensible approach to belief.

[Adalbertus]

I think those who believe in dinosaur fossiles created by the devil don't believe in the Bible. The Bible has two different versions of the creation, and they already contradict in the order of creation (of which I conclude that a historically reliable report on creation does not belong to the aims of the Bible). But neither of them mentions any part of the world being created by the devil.

The concept of human freedom is under more attack by science than by religion.