Personal rapid transit

[Datajack Franit]

That's the problem of the US. It's unacceptable that large metropolises like LA have just 5 or 6 subway lines, with any major european or asian city already planning line 15 and the second circular line.


LA




Berlin



Full-sized version:

http://urbanrail.net/eu/bln/berlin-map.gif

[DanS]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
That's the problem of the US. It's unacceptable that large metropolises like LA have just 5 or 6 subway lines

Says you. Who are you to say what is acceptable and unacceptable for LA?

And could you fix that Berlin picture. It's too big and messes up my screen.

[Thue]

Originally posted by DanS


Electric cars don't need much designing. You're talking in the 8-figures, and they're already on the market.

Doesn't lithium batteries degrade? Also, it has a 3.5 hour charge time. And you will still not free up the roads and parking spaces or avoid traffic deaths.

US$100,000 for the Tesla is still expensive (I don't know how much prices will fall). It may be that building a km of PRT rail is expensive, but in a build-up multistory city environment a km is equivalent to a lot of homes. I am mostly thinking Copenhagen or Paris here, not sprawling US suburbs.

[Thue]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Subways, as they are, are still the best solution, as they transport millions of commuters each year and take them away from the surface. At the moment, subway lines are still not widely enough used, as a single line is enough to cover the needs of 500,000 inhabitants. How many 500,000 cities are there that don't have any subway line yet? If Paris is crowded, let them build just more lines, instead of wasting money for this.

My impression is, PRT is superior in every way to subways. For example you could just take your subway line and run PRT cabs on it. OK, I am not an expert, but neither are you .

Having PRT cabs able to take of as soon as you arrive, and able to switch all the way to your destination beats wait for trains and switching trains.

The initial article I linked postulated that running a PRT system on rails would be cheaper than running trains on the same rails. As the PRT system only runs cars where there is demand, you don't need to run almost-empty trains at night.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by DanS


Says you. Who are you to say what is acceptable and unacceptable for LA?

And could you fix that Berlin picture. It's too big and messes up my screen.

I prefer what you originally had there. It amused me.

[GePap]

As Spiff said, PTR as you laid it out is far too expensive in any real major urban center. I am surprised that in Paris 1KM of underground tracks cost only 90M Euro, cause in NYC 1 mile of new subway costs 1 Billion dollars.

[Datajack Franit]

The picture is fine as it is. It shows that one of the most populous American cities cannot afford building subway lines, in a way that would allow most of the surface-based means of transport (highways and roads) being reconverted into housing and greenbelts.

[:) Smiley]

LA could afford to build such a subway, the problem is that it could not afford to maintain one, as population density is insufficient in much of the city to make it even come close to breaking even.

As with many things relating to infrastructure, the biggest headache is always the "last mile" that connects main lines, be they water, data, or transportation, to the end users. In Europe, clustered housing and villages make this easy. In the USA, where houses in the suburbs are evenly spaced out, it's not.

ultimately, PRT is not going to go out to Joe's fishing hole or Aunt Emmie's farm house or any other sort of place where it'd be ridiculous to build and maintain guideway for the use of a single person.

On the flip side, a city designed around the PRT may be functional.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
The picture is fine as it is.

No, it's not. Remove it and just provide a link. Please! Now!

It messes up the whole goddamn thread for me.

[Colonâ„¢]

@ comparing Berlin to LA.

PS: gonna write you back Dan, just (re)considering a thing or two at the moment.

[General Ludd]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Personal rapid transit

Originally posted by OzzyKP



btw, is anyone else thinking of another personal transport system?

[DanS]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
@ comparing Berlin to LA.

PS: gonna write you back Dan, just (re)considering a thing or two at the moment.

No hurry.

[VetLegion]

Basically this is building (possibly elevated/buried) rail everywhere, and running small (down to 1-person) computer-controlled "taxis" on it. The system is switched such that you just call a "taxi", and is then taken directly to your destination without changing cab.

If it can fit one person, it can fit two. If it can fit two, there's going to be a party and mess. People are going to get drunk in it, have sex in it, vandalize it, take a dump in it...
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but it could never work for hygienic reasons alone. Just don't say it will all be recorded, who'd want to drive while being recorded for YouTube?

This wouldn't be an issue if you had your own electric taxicar, but that would negate most benefits of your system.

[Adagio]

PRT sounds interesting, but I doubt we'll see it soon... if ever...



And large pictures in threads

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: Re: Personal rapid transit

Originally posted by Thue
The fact that making subways makes enough economic sense for them to be made, even if some of them cost 90M€/km, also indicates to me that PRTwould make economic sense.

Err, no.

Traffic jams occur when you have too many vehicles on an infrastructure. On cluttered railways, you can have something close to "traffic jams", since many trains are needed to transport all those people.

Now, on cluttered railways, people are crammed into a train. When the enginners increase the amount of trains so that there's a jam, it's because the passengers can't be any more crammed than they already are.

Now, a personal rail vehicle would fit comfortably one person (or maybe two, if a family/couple/friends wanted to go to the same place). So, to carry as many passengers, you need much much more room for the vehicles. As a result, the traffic jams would be horrible.

I'd also like to point out that, in most subway systems, rail lines don't cross each other. In order to avoid crossings (which are dangerous), the lines are often dug at different layers underground. Connecting them would not only be expansive, it would be dangerous (because if you dig too much under the city, your city ends up not being supported by the ground anymore)