Did the British Raj represent Greater India?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by molly bloom

Norman-Arab architecture in Palermo:

That's interesting. The English invaded Palestine/Israel and built several Castiles and it seems the Arabs liked them so much they copied the design and then other muslim states copied it from the Arabs. I never knew that castiles/buildings obviously derived from English designs were built all the way in India during the late middle ages.

[BeBMan]

Hm, the first crusaders did mainly learn from both Byzantines and Arabs, castles in Europe and siege warfare in general weren't that sophisticated then. Later (13th century) crusader castles belonged to the most advanced but I wouldn't credit the English exclusively for that....

[Dinner]

True. Though I imagine there is a reason they call those designs Norman.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by BeBro
A country/culture/whatever *can* profit in certain ways from cultural exchanges even when they are brought by war and conquest. That doesn't mean that war and conquest are inherently good things, that they are preferable or ethical. It's just that complex developments are hard to describe with just "good" or "bad".

Exactly. Besides, reminiscing (if that's the right word) about what "might have been," given the deep, far-reaching effects of such facts of history, is a pointless exercise, better suited to History Forum threads and alternate-history fictions than forming the basis of one's political views.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm


So now, invasions are good things?

The Arya seemed to think so.

What with all their joyful references to burning the forts and towns of the dark ones, and their giving thanks to Agni and Indra for helping them.


Certainly art and architecture from the sub-continent would be a lot poorer were it not for Kushan, Gandharan, Timurid, Achaemenid and Arab influences....


One of Ashoka's columns, showing the rather obvious indebtedness to Achaemenid (Persian) influences:

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That's interesting. The English invaded Palestine/Israel and built several Castiles and it seems the Arabs liked them so much they copied the design and then other muslim states copied it from the Arabs. I never knew that castiles/buildings obviously derived from English designs were built all the way in India during the late middle ages.

Err... that's from Palermo in Sicily.

The Aghlabid Arabs were there before the Normans, who thought so much of Islamic architecture (and clothing, science and foodstuffs, dancing girls and music) that they exported (amongst other things) the 'Norman' (read Saracen) arch back to France and their domains in England and Wales.


Arabic inscription on a column in Palermo's Norman-Arab Cathedral:

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Oerdin


For the sake of history it is interesting to try to figure these things out. It helps us piece together bits of the ancient past even if only a little.

I agree 100% with that.

What I can't understand is people now expressing outrage that their ancestors might not be who they would like them to be

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by TheStinger


What I can't understand is people now expressing outrage that their ancestors might not be who they would like them to be

It's Mr Everything Comes From India from 'Goodness Gracious Me', all over again.

"Shakespeare ?"- "Indian!"

"Jesus ?" - "Indian!"

" The British royal family? Indian! Have arranged marriages, live in the same house and all work for the family business. Indian! "


Unfortunately the reinventing of Indian history has tragic consequences:

A mass grave in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, in which sixty-one bodies — thirty-four of women and twenty-seven of children — are buried. Since February 27, 2002, more than 850 people have been killed in communal violence in the state of Gujarat, most of them Muslims. Unofficial estimates put the death toll as high as 2,000. The attacks against Muslims in Gujarat have been actively supported by state government officials and by the police.

Police told Muslims, "We don't have any orders to save you."

The leg brace of a handicapped male victim buried at a mass gravesite in Ahmedabad. Gravediggers told Human Rights Watch that most bodies they buried were burned and butchered beyond recognition. Many were missing body parts -arms, legs, and even heads. Pregnant women, whose bellies were cut open before they were killed, were buried with their fetuses hanging outside their bodies .

http://hrw.org/reports/2002/india/

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by aneeshm
lol i h8 muslims LOL

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Do we even need to go any further when Tacc summed it up so well?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by molly bloom
"Shakespeare ?"- "Indian!"

"Jesus ?" - "Indian!"

"The British royal family? Indian! Have arranged marriages, live in the same house and all work for the family business. Indian! "

"Except Prince Charles... He's African."

"Huh?"

"Of course. If he were Indian, he'd have smaller ears."

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


---

Do we even need to go any further when Tacc summed it up so well?

When we're bored, yes, yes we do. Clearly.

Silly Imran!

-Arrian

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by LordShiva
All of that, plus Nepal, Tibet, Maldives, and Mauritius, will be ours again soon

why wasn't it retained as a single country at independance? I would think that would have been a superior arrangment for all concerned.

[Zkribbler]

WTF....Mauritius was never a part of India.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
WTF....Mauritius was never a part of India.

But it has a lorra lorra Indians now. Like Trinidad, Guyana, Fiji and Southall.


All the better for its cuisine.

Mauritian venison curry is outtasight.


And Bois Cheri tea ? Mmmmmmm......