Did the British Raj represent Greater India?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by aneeshm


They never got a chance to consolidate, and you never had to bear with their rule in any real sense. How long was the Vatican under Muslim control?

The Arabs did briefly control Sicily and the southern most part of Italy though the Pope called for a crusade against them (it was actually the first crusade ever if memory serves) which resulted in the Arabs being completely defeated in Italy. The campaign went so well that the Pope decided to start calling on a number of other crusades which were met with varying degrees of success.

[Arrian]

By the way, from that Iranian link I provided, I found this hilarious:

Against the reasons we will discuss, no valid evidence has been produced to prove that the Aryans migrated from Central Asia or any other place to Iran. What European historians have written in this regard is based on unscientific and unproven hypotheses influenced by anti-Iranian and political ideas.

It is an echo of the anti-AIT Indians, except in this version the Aryans are Iranian.

Everybody wants to claim them, apparently.

-Arrian

[LordShiva]

On an unrelated not (or not), Arrian, how did you come up with your login name?

[Arrian]

Heh. I was wondering when that would come up...

Lucius Flavius Arrianus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrian

I read his Anabasis of Alexander in college (english translation, of course) and loved it, so I started using Arrian or Arrianus as my leader name when I played Civ (then CivII). I came to associate it as my "civ name" and so when I registered here and at CivFanatics, I used it.

-Arrian

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Arrian
By the way, from that Iranian link I provided, I found this hilarious:



It is an echo of the anti-AIT Indians, except in this version the Aryans are Iranian.

Everybody wants to claim them, apparently.

-Arrian

Persian Farsi is an Indo-European language so proto-Europeans (or a group decended from proto-Europeans) had to settle there at some time.

[TheStinger]

Does it actually matter whether your very very ancient ancestors came form certain areas.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Persian Farsi is an Indo-European language so proto-Europeans (or a group decended from proto-Europeans) had to settle there at some time.

To be more precise, people speaking a proto Indo European language had to settle there at some time. The automatic identification of a language family, with an ethnic or racial connection is one of the sources of controversy, as is the identification of IE and PIE with "European"

[Dinner]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Does it actually matter whether your very very ancient ancestors came form certain areas.

For the sake of history it is interesting to try to figure these things out. It helps us piece together bits of the ancient past even if only a little.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm

I do not consider the Aryans invaders, because Aryan was simply the name the local people gave themselves. Remember that Ravana once accused Rama of being un-Aryan.

So Iranians are 'Indians' are they ? News to me and them.

The local peoples were called Dasas by the Arya- the dark ones.

Odd that the further south in India you go, the darker the people get, isn't it ?

And that genetically, India's tribal peoples are related to Australian aborigines.

Mughal architecture looks pathetic when compared to what inspired it.

Well you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is nonsensical, partisan and WRONG.

'Pathetic' Fatehpur Sikri:

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Arrian


The reason for thinking that Aryan invasion theory might've been advanced by Europeans is basically that such a theory was pretty useful in justifying the British Raj.

If it was promulgated by a Prime Minister, General or the President of the Board Of Trade.

The British could justify rule in the Indian sub-continent simply through conquest- of Portuguese and Dutch colonies and trading posts, of French colonies and trading posts and of course through the necessity of trade, with the cooption and cooperation of indigenous rulers.

[Arrian]

I understand that it wasn't created for that purpose. I was merely saying that it makes some sense that such a theory would be attractive to some people, for reasons other than its scientific merits. That was it, really.

-Arrian

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Arrian
I understand that it wasn't created for that purpose. I was merely saying that it makes some sense that such a theory would be attractive to some people, for reasons other than its scientific merits. That was it, really.

-Arrian

If you look at the route of penetration of the sub-continent by the English/British, it wasn't via the typical route of northern invaders, but via the more southerly coastal areas and Bengal.


aneeshm would have us believe that the Arya sprang forth from Indian soil, then rampaged across the Hindu Kush and Gangetic plain, eventually ending up in Iran and on the borders of Mitanni held Syria.


A curious reversal of the ways most forces have come and gone on the Indian sub-continent, from the Macedonians of Alexander to the Hephthalite Huns, Arabs in Gujerat, Mohammed of Ghur, the Ghaznavids, the Afghans, Achaemenids, Mongols, Timurids et cetera.

It also doesn't account for the survival of Brahui in the northwest, a people speaking a language relating to the Dravidian group.


More 'pathetic' Islamic Indian architecture:

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by molly bloom

Well you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is nonsensical, partisan and WRONG.

'Pathetic' Fatehpur Sikri:

It IS quite pathetic, isn't it, when compared with what these people tried to copy?

[aneeshm]

Another example:

[aneeshm]

And another: