Saddam has been executed

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sava


You're missing the point. The point isn't that "America is bad... blah blah blah"

The point is that the same stupid idiots that thought it was a good idea to finance Saddam and Osama bin Laden are the same dumbasses that are running the war in Iraq. These people have been screwing up for the past 30 years making horrible foreign policy decisions that have put our country in some serious sh1t. Now nearly 50 years after the CIA first started using Saddam as an asset, a US supported Iraqi interim government hangs him.

The Shias and Sunnis are in a civil war... Iran hates us. The region is more unstable than ever... 9-11... I mean... talk about blowback.

Where is the accountability?

The same people who have been screwing up for decades are still screwing up and I'm watching things just get worse and worse. This is not just about "America being bad". It's about people in government who need to get their asses fired. It's about sending guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld home for good. It's about getting rid of the Bush administration (and this awful Iraq policy) and getting the **** outta dodge.

We've got to pick our battles, and Iraq is not a hill I want to die on.

United States' policy during the Cold War made perfect sense -- you spread democracy by propping up anti-communist dictators in Latin America, Southeast Asia, Africa, and Middle East.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by TheStinger
he should have high tailed it to Basra then the Brits would have got him and he would still be alive...

Why would you assume that the the Brits wouldn't turn him over to the Iraqis? They were the ones that tried him and carried out the sentence after all.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
First, do you honestly think that any European country would have agreed to let him stay in their prison? Second, after the first couple of terrorist attacks on the European country keeping him in prison then what? Move him from country to country or ask the people of that country to continue to endure the attacks? Frankly it's the contemplation of the later, the inevitable retributions, which would have provided any European country with sane, competent leadership an adequate excuse to refuse to sponsor Mr Hussein's imprisonment.

One of the dilemmas resulting from Mr Hussein's capture and imprisonment was the human cost of keeping him. How many people died just in the process of finishing his trial? I'm including all the officers of the court, the lawyers, and the family members.

I can't believe this point isn't being made more often.

Why should the life of one known mass murderer be preserved when this would effectively sign the death warrants of several to dozens of innocents? Why is his life worth more than theirs?

[Alexander's Horse]

it was a body double

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Darius871
I can't believe this point isn't being made more often.

Why should the life of one known mass murderer be preserved when this would effectively sign the death warrants of several to dozens of innocents? Why is his life worth more than theirs?

Thus now that Saddam is dead, we can expect all his (previously violent) supporters to lay down their arms, stop hating, and accept peace? Nice fairy-tale...

Regardless of whether you support the DP or not, this line of reasoning doesn't fly at all. His death is just as convenient an excuse as his life would have been for those bent on violence.

[TCO]

Originally posted by laurentius


Personally I would have like to see the Iraqi President Mr. Hussein spending the rest of his life in some European prison like in Sweden after being given a fair trial at the Int. War Crimes Tribunal in the Hague. Instead of some US backed kangaroo court wielding winners justice on him. Did you ****ing heard the guards were dancing around his body chanting shia slogans....Jesus. Thats just unbelievable for us.

Murdering someone for the crimes he may have conducted is always a crime and will be judged as a crime by the future generations. Especially when a legal President of a Sovereign country is put to death like this without a free trial by the invaders.

A life in prison in Sweden should have been enough of a sentence for him.

I heard that they woke him up every 30 minutes for his last night. They would wake him up to show him the rope. I hope this meets Swedish standards.

[TCO]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
blablabla

**** the Sunnis. We need to stop kissing their asses. We have held the Shiites back too much anyhow.

[TCO]

Originally posted by LordShiva


Devanagari

Looks like about twice as many letters. The ligature thing sounds complicated.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
they needed to execute Saddam to end that farce of a trial

Yup. Sigh of releif that we don't have that any more.

[Dis]

apparantly the parents of a 9 year old boy thought it would be appropiate to show him the hanging. Now the 9 year old boy is dead.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,9294,2-10-1462_2050341,00.html

[Berzerker]

The point is that the same stupid idiots that thought it was a good idea to finance Saddam and Osama bin Laden are the same dumbasses that are running the war in Iraq. These people have been screwing up for the past 30 years making horrible foreign policy decisions that have put our country in some serious sh1t. Now nearly 50 years after the CIA first started using Saddam as an asset, a US supported Iraqi interim government hangs him.

The Shias and Sunnis are in a civil war... Iran hates us. The region is more unstable than ever... 9-11... I mean... talk about blowback.

Where is the accountability?

The same people who have been screwing up for decades are still screwing up and I'm watching things just get worse and worse. This is not just about "America being bad". It's about people in government who need to get their asses fired.

Yup

More like they are one and the same. Those that seperate the two tend to have blinders on which make them incapable of judging what the good of either actually is in the long run.

But according to you, the utilitarian decides what is best for society and they dont care what is best for me or you. As you said, our "rights" come second to society's needs. That means utilitarianism and fascism share the same organising principle behind society and government. Communism is based on that concept as well, there really are only two ideologies - live and let live, and, do as I say because you exist to follow my orders.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Berzerker
But according to you, the utilitarian decides what is best for society and they dont care what is best for me or you.

Nowhere have I stated how the utilitarian nature of the law should be set. If you really are interested, I find Democratic evaluation of the utility of "rights" the most effective. (Not perfect, but still better than other forms of evaluation.)

As you said, our "rights" come second to society's needs.

No, I quite explicitly stated (as you quoted) that I think they are "one and the same". You could disagree with that assessment if you wish, but claiming that I stated that one is more important than the other is ignorant. And claiming that I specified societal needs as more important than individual ones is even more ignorant. That is because even if we suspend reality and accept that something can be more important than itself as you suggest, it's just as likely that I meant individual rights over societal needs.

That means utilitarianism and fascism share the same organising principle behind society and government.

Your problem is you can't look past an "ism" that shares the same root and see I am talking about something altogether different from your baseless assumption.

I do not subscribe to utilitarianism. I said nothing about how to determine the utility of rights. You conjured a method to refute, which is certainly not my own prefered method.

Communism is based on that concept as well, there really are only two ideologies - live and let live, and, do as I say because you exist to follow my orders.

"Live and let live" is something that has it's own utility. If not, you are saying it is a worthless concept.

[MOBIUS]

Saddam Hussein

1937 - 2006

Guilty of killing 148 people!

There I was thinking he was more of a bloodthirsty monster than that...

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why would you assume that the the Brits wouldn't turn him over to the Iraqis? They were the ones that tried him and carried out the sentence after all.

Because we won't hand over people if they are likley to face the death penalty

[DinoDoc]

He would have been captured in his own country. How would you have been able to keep him?