A thread about Civ!

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by red_jon
In the UK class is far more prevalent than race in determining social position.

Same in the US.


JM

[Arrian]

Having semblances of a caste system and having a full-blown caste system are different things

Indeed. I think one could argue that lots of societies have "semblances of a caste system," depending on just how much one wants to strain the analogy.

Apologies for my initial reaction. I occasionally get tired of how discussions of race relations typically go. I also reacted to the WASP comment, because that in particular struck me as ignorant. WASPs ("real" or "pure" ones, anyway) are rare and getting rarer. It won't be long now until that basic fact's inevitable impact on the political class becomes apparent.

edit: one could say I'm a WASP. But I wouldn't. Does the 1/4 Sicilian (and Catholic) background count? What about the 1/8 Croatian?

-Arrian

[red_jon]

Arrian - fair enough, it wasn't meant to be insulting.

I think I killed my own thread. Could have been interesting too

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by red_jon
Drogue - each to his own, but to me 'universal suffrage' isn't just about the right for all to vote, it's about how much your vote actually counts. As of January parliament can be overriden and the cabinet can make pretty much whatever laws they please (with nary more than a couple of weak provisos).

That's hyperbole to the point of hysteria. The act in question was never passed in order to remove due and democratic process- any attempt to treat it as such will be subject to judicial review and struck down as a mischief interpretation.

[Lorizael]

This has been done before. Inevitably, everyone always thinks their own country is all the free speech, free market stuff.

I wonder what Iranians think their government is.

Or Cubans.

Or Iraqis.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp



That's hyperbole to the point of hysteria. The act in question was never passed in order to remove due and democratic process- any attempt to treat it as such will be subject to judicial review and struck down as a mischief interpretation.

You clearly have far more confidence in the system than I do. The potential for abuse with this act is extreme.

I'd consider concern to be an appropriate response. The Green Party have reffered to it as greatly undermining our democracy. As a bill it was dubbed in the Times newspaper as 'The Bill to end all Bills'.

We essentially create an enabling act and we trust it'll never be used as such?

And regarding your comment that the at was 'never passed in order to remove due and democratic process', Jim Murphy is not exactly a politician I admire or have faith in.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Any government using it to force through legislation it couldn't pass through Parliament would sign its own death warrant at the polls.

At this point, scaremongerers will state that the government could simply abolish the polls, but we're no more at risk of coup d'etat from this bill than we were before it. I don't think, for one second, that this threatens parliamentary democracy.

[aneeshm]

To the people who have suggested that there is a semi-caste-system prevalent in the UK or the US - let me tell, you have absolutely NO IDEA how a caste system works. You have NO IDEA as to how oppressive it can sometimes get, when the elites abuse it. Hell, I'd venture you have no idea how the caste system worked in India, either.

[Will9]

I am not very educated on the Caste System, but I knew that the Caste System was (and still is even though it is outlawed) much more oppressive than anything in the US. I thought people were crazy for relating our sterotypes to the Caste System.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Hell, I'd venture you have no idea how the caste system worked in India, either.

Well that would require an intricate knowledge of the origins of Hindu civilisation, I'm afraid