Brave Iranian protestors

[Pekka]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1974334,00.html

That took some cojones... I applaud their bravery. It is good to see, that even in places where the risks involved are known, there are always people who stand up and protest.

Maybe after this we can all conclude, that protesting and protestors aren't 'bad' by default. Even if they protest against your own values. It is vital.

In a startling contrast to the acclaim Mr Ahmadinejad has received in numerous recent appearances around Iran, he faced chants of "Death to the dictator" as he addressed a gathering in the university's sports hall last week. Several hundred students forced their way in to voice anger over a clampdown on universities since he became president last year.

This is how it always starts with these fundies, fascists and dictators. Kill the world of studies. Proceed into killing intellectuals, adn all information that is dangerous to your own position of 'ruling by yourself'.

Dissident voice is the voice of the hero when facing dictatorship adn other rogue leaderships. Dissident voice is vital for democracy, because it helps in shaping it to something better, even if we don't agree with the message.

[aneeshm]

Loss of freedom is an inevitable consequences of putting "Islamic" in a country's name, isn't it?

Sometimes I weep for Persia. Such a long time since she was struck down by the Muslims.

Āryānā, where hast thou gone?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Cause Iranians were sooo free under the Shah

[aneeshm]

Iran was still Islamic under the Shah. I'm talking about the classical civilisation of Persia that was finished by the first Muslim expansion.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Man, you'll twist history in any shape just so you can slam Islam .

Pahlavi's government was as "Islamic" as Turkey's is today.

[aneeshm]

I'm not saying that the Shah's government was Islamic - in fact, I'd say the very opposite. The point is that the Islamic Revolution would never have happened if Iran hadn't been Islamic. I'm also saying that it would have been better for Iran and the world if Iran had not become Muslim.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Unfortunately (for you) you said:

Loss of freedom is an inevitable consequences of putting "Islamic" in a country's name, isn't it?

I'm sure plenty in Iran would argue that they are more free now than they were under Shah Pahlavi.

Now, when that argument has blown up, I guess you are resorting to other Muslim bashing.

[aneeshm]

I'd say that Iranians were freer under the Shah than under the current Islamic republic (as long as you did not dabble in politics, that is).

[aneeshm]

And Imran, please remember that I'm not anti-Muslim, I am merely anti-Islam. Big difference there. I consider Muslims as much victims of Islam as anyone else.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by aneeshm
I'd say that Iranians were freer under the Shah than under the current Islamic republic (as long as you did not dabble in politics, that is).

Yes, because as we all know the political process is such a small part of freedom .

And Imran, please remember that I'm not anti-Muslim, I am merely anti-Islam. Big difference there. I consider Muslims as much victims of Islam as anyone else.

Is this kind of like love the sinner, hate the sin, while you march with "God Hates Fags" placards?

It's ok, though. After all, you are unfortunately of the Hindu belief system, which has kept a majority of Indians in poverty and destitution . I'm not blaming the Hindus, I'm blaming Hinduism; the Hindus are as much victims as anyone else.

[Pekka]

Well, the point still is, these protestors were freaking brave. SOme of them have gone underground for fear of their lives. But they still chose to do it.

You know, not making a difference in concrete terms most likely, but voicing your opinion, for the price of being threatened and possibly even killed.

I can say that's some good use of speech right there. If it can have ramifications like these, it MUST be something important you just said. If it didn't matter, no one would care.

Also these students are muslim and know Islam, so I don't know what the whole ruckus is about. These students still recognize a dictator when they see one, a one that will be counterproductive to their country. Someone who would shut down their path of higher learning. So, as muslims, they have prioritized it higher than the fundie drooling of their leader.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Yes, because as we all know the political process is such a small part of freedom .

And Imran, please remember that I'm not anti-Muslim, I am merely anti-Islam. Big difference there. I consider Muslims as much victims of Islam as anyone else.

Is this kind of like love the sinner, hate the sin, while you march with "God Hates Fags" placards?

It's ok, though. After all, you are unfortunately of the Hindu belief system, which has kept a majority of Indians in poverty and destitution . I'm not blaming the Hindus, I'm blaming Hinduism; the Hindus are as much victims as anyone else.

Close, but no cigar.

Where did the Hindu institutions go? They were destroyed by the Muslims who invaded India. Why is it that not a single Hindu or Buddhist university survives today? It's not because they lost patronage, it's because they were physically exterminated.

You can judge us when our institutions are back and we are fully in control again, now when we are recovering from a thousand years of imperialist rule.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Pekka
Well, the point still is, these protestors were freaking brave. SOme of them have gone underground for fear of their lives. But they still chose to do it.

You know, not making a difference in concrete terms most likely, but voicing your opinion, for the price of being threatened and possibly even killed.

I can say that's some good use of speech right there. If it can have ramifications like these, it MUST be something important you just said. If it didn't matter, no one would care.

Also these students are muslim and know Islam, so I don't know what the whole ruckus is about. These students still recognize a dictator when they see one, a one that will be counterproductive to their country. Someone who would shut down their path of higher learning. So, as muslims, they have prioritized it higher than the fundie drooling of their leader.

Protesters
Islam's thought-control system and control-freakiness

[red_jon]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Loss of freedom is an inevitable consequences of putting "Islamic" in a country's name, isn't it?

That's true of ANY religion. I hardly think 'The Christian Kingdom of Great Britain' would be a fun place to live either.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by red_jon



That's true of ANY religion. I hardly think 'The Christian Kingdom of Great Britain' would be a fun place to live either.

Buddhist Thailand seems to be getting along quite nicely. IIRC, the Thai monarch helped democracy protesters against an attempted military coup. So is Bhutan - the king deciding to voluntarily turn his country into a political system resembling Great Britain (constitutional monarchy, with the king having even LESS powers and more accountability than the current British monarch). Seems some religions take to democracy more readily than some others.

And in case you're not aware, Britain IS an officially Protestant nation. IIRC, one of the titles of the monarch is the Defender of the Faith.