No Big Bang

[Ned]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
To quote the wikipedia entry:

In physics, light loses energy when it moves away from a massive body such as a star or a black hole; this effect reveals itself as a gravitational redshift in the frequency of the light, and is observable as a shift of spectral lines towards the red end of the spectrum. Gravitational redshift is sometimes known as the Einstein effect, although that is not the only meaning applied to that term.

Light coming from a region of weaker gravity shows a gravitational blueshift

And this applies near large masses and not across the universe itself?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
I was reading elsewhere that CMB is the proof that the Steady State Universe cannot be true. Is there a simple explanation for why?

There's no particular reason to presume the existence of background radiation in a steady state universe. You have to postulate a separate mechanism.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned


And this applies near large masses and not across the universe itself?

What the **** are you talking about?

The blueshifting of certain nearby galaxies is due to their peculiar velocity, which, at short distances is able to overwhelm the Hubble effect.

The Hubble constant is ~70 (km/s)/MPC

The Andromeda galaxy is at a distance of around 0.7 MPC. The hubble velocity of the Andromeda galaxy is therefore around 50 km/s. Peculiar velocities of individual galaxies are on the order of 300 km/s. The peculiar velocity of Andromeda simply happens (actually, is caused to happen due to our relative proximity and gravitational attraction) to point toward us, overwhelming the Hubble velocity.

This is a separate issue from whether or not there is such a thing as gravitational blueshift.

The Hubble redshift is due to the expansion of space in time. It's only tangentially related to gravitational redshift.

[Lul Thyme]

You still havn't answered my question about your avatar KH...

[KrazyHorse]

It's Maher Arar

[Ned]

KH, light redshifts as it moves from highly curved space to less curved, less dense, right? As time advances, the whole universe becomes less dense. This implies that the same "gravity well" redshift mechanism must work the same way over time as the universe becomes less dense. So "tired light" can be consistent with both the BB and General Relativity and somewhat inconsistent with SS, unless we learn something else that could explain redshifting.

BTW, where does the energy go when a photon redshifts due to "gravity?"

[Ramo]

Where do you think a ball's kinetic energy goes when it rolls up a hill?

Wait, why am I getting into this thread...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
KH, light redshifts as it moves from highly curved space to less curved, less dense, right? As time advances, the whole universe becomes less dense. This implies that the same "gravity well" redshift mechanism must work the same way over time as the universe becomes less dense.

Light redshifts...or blueshifts for all sorts of reasons, grasshopper. I've already told you that.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ramo
Where do you think a ball's kinetic energy goes when it rolls up a hill?

Not a perfect analogy.

[Ned]

Good KH, but as you said, and as NASA and Einstein said, it redshifts as one moves from more curved to less curved. But that is what is happening to the fabric of space-time itself as the universe ages, suggesting that light redshifts over time regardless of everything else.

[KrazyHorse]

Ned, it's painfully obvious that you don't understand the fundamentals of general relativity. Or even special relativity.

Explaining to you all the problems with the crap you're spewing would assume that you had about 3 years of grounding in the requisite mathematics and physics knowledge, and at least 30 extra IQ points.

You're not smart enough or knowledgable enough to come up with a simple objection to expanding-Universe cosmology. Period.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
Where do you think a ball's kinetic energy goes when it rolls up a hill?

Wait, why am I getting into this thread...

To demonstrate you brilliance or that you are more brilliant than KH?

[Ned]

Why do you give up so easily, KH?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
Good KH, but as you said, and as NASA and Einstein said, it redshifts as one moves from more curved to less curved

This is a gross oversimplification, Neddie.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
Why do you give up so easily, KH?

Because you're an ignoramus who believes that physics can be simplified down to a few nonmathematical statements.