Senate Report: Gore Lies, Media Biased, Advocates Misrepresent

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
"It's outrageously ignorant to suggest we continue to knowingly continue to kill people just because we don't know for sure what the effects of GW will be. "

GW has not caused one death.

He is not talking about GW killing people, but just Air Pollution. Air Pollution does kill people, especially those that are sick and weak already.

[Solly]

At least we're agreed on that then Jack.

[Jack_www]

Well I dont even know if GW warming is going on, I just think that we should be on the safe side and reduce CO2 levels.

[Aeson]

The "aerosols" Ned and I are talking about aren't the sprays. Aerosol sprays used to contain CFC's, which have been done away with as you say.

We are talking about the particulates. These also can have an effect on the ozone layer, though much more short-lived than CFC's. Along with cloud formation they can also factor into acid rain.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Aeson
The "aerosols" Ned and I are talking about aren't the sprays. Aerosol sprays used to contain CFC's, which have been done away with as you say.

We are talking about the particulates. These also can have an effect on the ozone layer, though much more short-lived than CFC's. Along with cloud formation they can also factor into acid rain.

Thanks for the clarification. I was getting confused for a second about this.

[Solly]

I was under the impression that the aerosol data was something used to ad-hoc explain the drop in temperatures between 1940 and 1970 that didn't tie in with the CO2-as-main-driver-of-climate hypothesis?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Jack_www


I just saw that post of yours where you trying to say that there is good pollution. How can you say that pollution is good? The earth was been doing just fine for millions of years with out the pollution of humans, and we dont need to pollute it to save the earth.

Aerosol polution is good polution if there is global warming without it and to the extent it fights GW. Even the UN agrees with this.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
I was under the impression that the aerosol data was something used to ad-hoc explain the drop in temperatures between 1940 and 1970 that didn't tie in with the CO2-as-main-driver-of-climate hypothesis?

Could be. The UN now acknowledges the cooling effects of aerosols. But whether they caused the global cooling from 1940-mid 70's is just a guess.

I am puzzled why the GW advocates never seem to try to address the observed global cooling. They simply ignore it, it seems, or say that the people who do cite the NASA data are OIL company stooges.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Ned
I am puzzled why the GW advocates never seem to try to address the observed global cooling.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you continue to ignore the drawbacks of the aerosols you are infatuated with?

Aerosols are thought to help reflect incoming sunlight and contribute to global dimming. Conversely, aerosols help the earth retain heat in much the same manner. That is why cloudy nights are generally milder than clear nights. Global dimming leads to decreases in evaporation and thus decreases in rainfall, and may be responsible for rather massive shifts in rainfall patterns as well. Global dimming itself might be (and possibly already has been) a huge problem.

In any case, industrial aerosols are health risks that also cause acid rain and you think they are "good"? If we need to stop GW we can do so by lowering greenhouse emissions. We don't need to be spewing out more pollution that has it's own drawbacks.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Ned


Aerosol polution is good polution if there is global warming without it and to the extent it fights GW. Even the UN agrees with this.

How can any pollution is good? I never heard of this so called gobal cooling trend that is happening. Any sources that you can site?

[Solly]

I believe he has posted a graph recently, Jack.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
I believe he has posted a graph recently, Jack.

Well I have seen graphs that say the last 14 years have had the 12 hottest years on record. So I would like to see more of his information.

[Jack_www]

If the earth is cooling, how do you explain the retreat of glaciers all arround the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

[Solly]

Originally posted by Jack_www
If the earth is cooling, how do you explain the retreat of glaciers all arround the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat...ers_since_1850

i) Who claimed the earth was cooling?

ii) Glaciers are affected by many factors other than temperature

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Park Avenue


i) Who claimed the earth was cooling?

ii) Glaciers are affected by many factors other than temperature

Ned had been claiming that the earth is in a cooling period, and least that is I think he is claiming after reading his posts.