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  • French police kills again

    This time, it's hooligans that get killed

    From the BBC:

    France faces up to football hooliganism
    By Caroline Wyatt
    BBC News, Paris

    French football clubs and the authorities have vowed to clamp down on football hooliganism in France after a lethal confrontation between police and supporters of the Paris Saint-Germain team.

    Some 100 supporters of the team chased a Jewish man, shouting racist and anti-Semitic slogans, after their side lost 4-2 to Hapoel Tel Aviv last Thursday.

    A black plain-clothes police officer who tried to protect the French fan of the visiting Israeli team also became the focus of the crowd's anger.

    When he too came under verbal and physical attack, he drew his gun amid the chaos and shot and killed one Paris Saint-Germain supporter and seriously injured another.


    France was horrified by the picture of football-related violence, racism and anti-Semitism revealed by the tragic incident.

    The Paris prosecutor must now decide whether the police officer, Antoine Granomort, acted in legitimate self-defence or whether charges should be laid.

    At the same time, the Tel Aviv fan, Yaniv Hazout, and his family are being given increased protection measures by the local authorities in the tough Paris suburb of Sarcelles in case of reprisal attacks.

    Hooligan ban

    A police trade union official, Luc Poignant, has defended Mr Granomort's action.

    He said the crowd was shouting "filthy Jew" at Mr Hazout, and when they saw the plain-clothes policeman, who is of Afro-Caribbean descent, they began to yell: "Filthy black, we're going to get you."

    Witnesses say they also saw PSG fans give Nazi salutes and heard them make monkey noises.

    The Interior Minister, Nicolas Sarkozy - known for his hardline stance on law and order - says France will do everything it can to stop racist fans entering football stadiums.

    The Socialist party has also suggested looking to the UK for examples of how to act successfully to prevent football hooliganism.

    Mr Sarkozy held a crisis meeting on Saturday with the head of the French Professional Football League, whose president Frederic Thiriez said he was "shattered" by what had happened after Thursday's game, and would do all he could to ensure such an incident could never take place again.

    But the director-general of the French police, Michel Gaudin, insisted that recent measures taken against football hooliganism had already begun to have an effect.

    He told Le Parisien newspaper that violent racist acts involving football fans in France had dropped to six incidents so far this season, mainly in Paris, compared with 19 over the same period last year.

    However, he admitted that after some trouble-makers were excluded from attending matches, "pre-planned" fights between rival fans were taking place outside the stadiums, for example in nearby car parks.

    Mr Gaudin estimated that another 300 known hooligans could find themselves banned from matches, while the football league says that from now on, all football stadiums must install video surveillance cameras.

    Silent march

    PSG is a club that is known to have a notoriously racist fan base. Black players often suffer racist chants or insults, while white gangs have been known to fight their black and Arab counterparts during or after games.

    The Boulogne Boys group of supporters, with whom the dead fan Julien Quemener was linked, are said to have modelled themselves on British football hooligans in the 1980s, though the group says it is not linked to the far-right or political in any way.

    The name comes from the Kop of Boulogne, or KOB for short, one of the two main stands PSG supporters occupy at the stadium - the "kop" a direct reference to Anfield in Liverpool.

    The authorities have warned that some groups of supporters could find themselves being disbanded if there is further violence at PSG matches - with the possibility that future matches could be closed to the public if the French football association deemed it necessary.

    About 300 PSG supporters held a silent march on Sunday in memory of the fan who was killed, carrying a banner reading: "Murdering authorities - truth for Julien."

    The KOB website has put out a call for PSG fans who may have witnessed the shooting to report to the police in order to put 'their side of the story' to balance what they say is a one-sided account in the media.


    I must say I'm pretty disgusted by the political reactions about this death. Usually, when someone gets killed by the police during a violent act, the left rushes to explain that the police methods are bad, that one has to understand how the victim has entered a lifestyle of violence etc.
    But this time, as the victim is loosely related to the far right (he belongs to a broad group, whose extremist branch is on the far right), the left has no regard whatsoever for the victim, and chooses to villify football-support or hooliganism instead

    We see the same knee-jerk reaction whenever an Arab or a Black gets killed during an act of banditry, and some racist is quick to point out how bad Blacks and Arabs are in general
    Last edited by Spiffor; November 28, 2006, 07:21.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

  • #2
    Football fans are all nazis.

    You have proof right there.

    Spec.
    -Never argue with an idiot; He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's a bad idea to shout racial slurs at a policeman.

      Comment


      • #4
        Especially whilst running towards his gun lol
        Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
          It's a bad idea to shout racial slurs at a policeman.
          Especially when you're 100, and have already shouted racial slurs and threats to the person the policeman is trying to protect, indeed.

          However, this doesn't excuse the general commentary on the issue. Which solely focus on how bad the hooligans are, instead of looking for reasons on how people get to hooliganism.
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Spiffor

            Especially when you're 100, and have already shouted racial slurs and threats to the person the policeman is trying to protect, indeed.

            However, this doesn't excuse the general commentary on the issue. Which solely focus on how bad the hooligans are, instead of looking for reasons on how people get to hooliganism.
            Yup, it must be that all those white French soccer fans were raised in terrible housing, isolated from employment, and discriminated against.

            Ok, lets try again. Its the browns and blacks who riot for those reasons. The right wing rights riot because they are threatened by the browns and blacks, who wouldnt be so threatening, if they were giving housing, jobs, etc and not called racailles by Sarkozy. Its also, of course, the fault of globalization, which disrupts lives, makes white middle class French insecure, etc and so leads to violence.

            Except there was violence in France before globalization, as almost everywhere else.

            Sometime violence has social roots. Social amelioration is a good thing. But humans will still commit acts of violence even in the best of societies. You cant make man perfect. It comes out in different ways, sometimes in "social" ways, rather than in private ones. Even the Socialists know that (if the Communists do not).

            Sure, its fine to do a study on the social roots on antisemitism and racism. IIUC they do such studies in France alot. Meanwhile the response seems absolutely correct.

            Sarkozy
            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: French police kills again

              Originally posted by Spiffor
              This time, it's hooligans that get killed
              What's the problem this time then? Did someone important die?
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Spiffor
                However, this doesn't excuse the general commentary on the issue. Which solely focus on how bad the hooligans are, instead of looking for reasons on how people get to hooliganism.
                It's called .
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lord of the mark
                  Even the Socialists know that (if the Communists do not).
                  The Commies do too.

                  What prompted me into creating this thread is the knee-jerk reaction of L'Humanité. Yesterday's frontpage was a pic with football supporters doing the nazi salute, with the title: "Never again!".

                  I am pretty outraged by how stigmatizing the left-wing press is. Because it would have made a completely different commentary if the other extreme supporter group (the one that is made of Blacks and Arabs) had been at the source of the violence.

                  I guess one should be a bleeding heart librul when the thugs are Black or Arab, but no way one could be a bleeding heart librul when the thug is white
                  "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                  "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                  "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Europe is such a hilariously immature region.
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      100 against 1

                      what cowards
                      I need a foot massage

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think Spiffor has a valid point here. It seems that in the left wing press there appears to be only one "right" opinion to certain issues. When has the left wing press written about the relationship between Hitler and muslim leaders and how the current hate towards jews in the region had its foundations laid. No no in the left press the hate towards jews is entirily justified by events in Palestina, and again we fail to see the bigger picture. When you defend the Isrealis or even question the motives of the Arab world you are silenced. Does solidarity to palestine leave everyone else out?

                        The same bigotry shows its ugly face whenever theres supposed to be a "real debate" about immigration, Arabs in Europe etc. Its really really annoying and I personally feel its alienating me from the left wing. Seems like most of them are ignorant dreamers.

                        On topic though I wouldnt defend the crowd whether they were Arabs or French. The police had to make a difficult decision, but it seems it was the right one.
                        Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

                        - Paul Valery

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lord of the mark
                          Sure, its fine to do a study on the social roots on antisemitism and racism. IIUC they do such studies in France alot. Meanwhile the response seems absolutely correct.

                          Sarkozy
                          Sarkozy is the one who said he doesn't want to explain antisemitism, because explaining is already forgiving.
                          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            When he too came under verbal and physical attack, he drew his gun amid the chaos and shot and killed one Paris Saint-Germain supporter and seriously injured another.


                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                              It's a bad idea to shout racial slurs at a policeman.
                              It's an even worse idea to hit a policeman in a situation which he lacks the means to control with non-deadly force.
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment

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