Being a good person.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Lorizael

This is pretty silly. It certainly sounds nice, but it's really only so much sophistry. People should act a certain way based on reasons, not platitudes.

In the end, we die, we rot, we are utterly forgotten. Faced with that, there are no reasons, only platitudes -- some of which are better than others. Of them, the Golden Rule causes the minimal harm to the least number of people, while providing the maximum good to the greatest number of people. There's your "reason," if you insist on it.

[Arrian]

treat others how you would want to be treated. It's not that hard.

Though it can, at times, be hard. It conflicts with one's inherent selfishness.

-Arrian

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
In the end, we die, we rot, we are utterly forgotten. Faced with that, there are no reasons, only platitudes -- some of which are better than others. Of them, the Golden Rule causes the minimal harm to the least number of people, while providing the maximum good to the greatest number of people. There's your "reason," if you insist on it.

The funny thing is that...

In the end, we die, we rot, we are utterly forgotten. Faced with that, there are no reasons, only platitudes -- some of which are better than others.

...is more or less a platitude. Using a part of your argument in your premise.

Anyways, I'll stop being a dick. I just get all hot and bothered when someone makes a declarative statement about the way life should be. It makes me think said individual has never really sat down and thought about their own life, and just expects/hopes/blindly believes that they're doing the "right thing."

[Arrian]

Um, so what type of statement would satifsy you? One you agree with, perhaps?

-Arrian

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Lorizael


The funny thing is that...

In the end, we die, we rot, we are utterly forgotten. Faced with that, there are no reasons, only platitudes -- some of which are better than others.

...is more or less a platitude. Using a part of your argument in your premise.

That's not the funny part; that's the point I was making: you can't escape the platitudes.

Anyways, I'll stop being a dick. I just get all hot and bothered when someone makes a declarative statement about the way life should be. It makes me think said individual has never really sat down and thought about their own life, and just expects/hopes/blindly believes that they're doing the "right thing."

Any honest, philosphical inquiry into the nature of the good is going to lead you back to what you're calling platitudes. I'm one of those people who has thought long and hard about these matters, and has come to the conclusion that I don't really have much to add to the wisdom of Buddha and Christ. Apparently, you think you do. That's arrogant, but good for you; hope it makes your slow slide into death and obscurity comfortable, too.

[Lorizael]

Well, since I understand the fundamental truths of the universe, obviously, yes.

Unfortunately, I really am this arrogant.

But, uh, let's see.

There are things that would "satisfy" me, so to speak, that I'd be okay with. Hell, I'm not even all that bothered by the last point he made, that doing unto others rests mostly on a utilitarian premise. I don't agree with it, and it's shaky, and I don't think he really believes it either, but it sort of works, and it doesn't get my panties in a twist.

Really, I'm only bothered when people aren't thinking about things.

Not knowing Rufus at all, I'll go ahead and make the bald faced assertion that he believes what he believes, and acts the way he acts, simply just because. Just because that's how he was raised, because of genetics, because of the friends he has, because of the life he has decided he wants to live, because of whatever influences throughout his life have made him more or less happy.

There are no reasons; there aren't even any platitudes. He may use such words when communicating with other people, but the words aren't what drive him inside. Inside, he simply is who he is. Now, of course, an argument could be made that people should just "be themselves" and other such things, but this isn't the way I would want to live.

Being as how my life is the most important thing in my universe, and because I can never escape it or live without it, I feel that I owe it to myself to actually figure it out. I believe that I should come to terms with how it should work and that I shouldn't just rely on the accumulated experiences of my life to mindlessly guide me.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
I'm one of those people who has thought long and hard about these matters, and has come to the conclusion that I don't really have much to add to the wisdom of Buddha and Christ.

Well, foot in mouth for me.

[Cort Haus]

We're still waiting for your Grand Manifesto btw, Lorizael.

[Spec]

His dog ate it.

Spec.

[Wernazuma III]

Sp00py, it's really hard to give a serious response when we don't know what thoughts and experiences in you conflict with your concept of "goodness" (from category 1 - used God's name in vain - to 10 - killed sombody).
I think that your socialization has been so Christian that particularly (evangelical) Christian moral concepts are extremely hardcoded. Now that you're floating away from that belief, there is a conflict between your changing world view and your concept of "goodness" that remains basically the same or at least lags behind. It simply cannot be otherwise.
Every clash between your actual reality and "being good" can help you to find out if you're really going to far at some point or if "being good" can mean more than you had previously thought, or that there indeed are large blurry areas that can't strictly be understood with the dichotomic good/bad duality.

This process is important - at least it's better than to stick to a rigid, predefined set of morals that actually replaces conciousness instead of developing it.



PS: I also remember that break up thread. You seemed to have lived in a VERY narrow environment - I didn't follow the discussion to the end though but it seems you're on the best way to become a more self determined personality. This is a normal process, no need to worry, just don't turn off conscience.

Good luck with sorting out your life, I hope what I said makes at least a bit sense.

[asleepathewheel]

And what is good, Phaedrus, And what is not good -- Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

[lord of the mark]

snoop -

Rabbinic wisdom.

What man remembers, G-d forgets. What man forgets, G-d remembers.

If a man does good, and thinks hard on how good he is, it is no merit. If he sins, and thinks (repents) of it, it is no demerit.

If a man does good, and forgets it, G-d remembers it for his merit. If man does evil, and forgets it, G-d remembers till the day of judgement.

Leaving aside the theology and theodicy issues, I think if youre so worked up about what you did, whatever it is, youve already done something right.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
Um, so what type of statement would satifsy you? One you agree with, perhaps?

-Arrian

Perhaps to move beyond statements? Is that not the core of existentialism, whether atheist, christian or Jewish? Not to make statements, but faced with the reality of the grave, that RF spoke of, to throw oneself into actions and relationships.


Im not saying the golden rule isnt a good guide - but that its not the ultimate reality, its what derives from that reality, a reality you experience directly.

[Arrian]

Perhaps to move beyond statements? Is that not the core of existentialism, whether atheist, christian or Jewish? Not to make statements, but faced with the reality of the grave, that RF spoke of, to throw oneself into actions and relationships.

Yes, but when one is discussing things (including Life, The Universe and Everything), one makes... statements.

Deeds are done in your everyday life. Apolyton is, by its very nature, not RL. It's a discussion forum.

Im not saying the golden rule isnt a good guide - but that its not the ultimate reality, its what derives from that reality, a reality you experience directly.

Um, what do you mean by "ultimate reality?" Something along the lines of "Truth?" Or "The Answer?"

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
snoop -

Rabbinic wisdom.

What man remembers, G-d forgets. What man forgets, G-d remembers.

If a man does good, and thinks hard on how good he is, it is no merit. If he sins, and thinks (repents) of it, it is no demerit.

If a man does good, and forgets it, G-d remembers it for his merit. If man does evil, and forgets it, G-d remembers till the day of judgement.

Leaving aside the theology and theodicy issues, I think if youre so worked up about what you did, whatever it is, youve already done something right.

QFT.