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  • Rumsfeld okayed abuses says former US army general

    MADRID, Nov 25 (Reuters) - Outgoing U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorised the mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, the prison's former U.S. commander said in an interview on Saturday.

    Former U.S. Army Brigadier General Janis Karpinski told Spain's El Pais newspaper she had seen a letter apparently signed by Rumsfeld which allowed civilian contractors to use techniques such as sleep deprivation during interrogation.

    Karpinski, who ran the prison until early 2004, said she saw a memorandum signed by Rumsfeld detailing the use of harsh interrogation methods.

    "The handwritten signature was above his printed name and in the same handwriting in the margin was written: "Make sure this is accomplished"," she told Saturday's El Pais.


    "The methods consisted of making prisoners stand for long periods, sleep deprivation ... playing music at full volume, having to sit in uncomfortably ... Rumsfeld authorised these specific techniques."

    The Geneva Convention says prisoners of war should suffer "no physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion" to secure information.

    "Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind," the document states.

    A spokesman for the Pentagon declined to comment on Karpinski's accusations, while U.S. army in Iraq could not immediately be reached for comment.

    Karpinski was withdrawn from Iraq in early 2004, shortly after photographs showing American troops abusing detainees at the prison were flashed around the world. She was subsequently removed from active duty and then demoted to the rank of colonel on unrelated charges.

    Karpinski insists she knew nothing about the abuse of prisoners until she saw the photos, as interrogation was carried out in a prison wing run by U.S. military intelligence.

    Rumsfeld also authorised the army to break the Geneva Conventions by not registering all prisoners, Karpinski said, explaining how she raised the case of one unregistered inmate with an aide to former U.S. commander Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez.


    "We received a message from the Pentagon, from the Defense Secretary, ordering us to hold the prisoner without registering him. I now know this happened on various occasions."

    Karpinski said last week she was ready to testify against Rumsfeld, if a suit filed by civil rights groups in Germany over Abu Ghraib led to a full investigation.

    U.S. President George W. Bush announced Rumsfeld's resignation after Democrats wrested power from the Republicans in midterm elections earlier this month, partly due to public criticism over the Iraq war.

    (Additional reporting by Diane Bartz in Washington)
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  • #2
    I could see how some people would attack her since she was commanding at the time the abuses were exposed so it is possible she has a vested interest in accusing Rumsfield, however, what she says is still very interesting.
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    • #3
      "The methods consisted of making prisoners stand for long periods, sleep deprivation ... playing music at full volume, having to sit in uncomfortably ... Rumsfeld authorised these specific techniques."


      Oh my god. How terrible!
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      • #4
        The Geneva Convention says prisoners of war should suffer "no physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion" to secure information.

        "Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind," the document states.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #5
          I wonder how many of the detainees you're crying about actually met the requirements to be called a prisoner of war...
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          • #6
            1. Meh, they're just going to throw him under the bus now that he's gone. Surprise, surprise.

            2. Drake, is it okay to abuse people whether the Geneva Convention says so or not? Not in my book ...
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            • #7
              Drake, is it okay to abuse people whether the Geneva Convention says so or not?


              Depends on whether you're talking about real abuse or just making people stand and listen to loud music...
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              • #8
                Why is even that okay though? It may be wimpy torture, and of course overblown by the critics (you thought they'd do otherwise why?), but it's still torture, inflicting negative circumstances on someone for the purpose of gaining information ...
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                • #9
                  but it's still torture


                  No, it isn't. I don't accept the ridiculous notion that any coercion whatsoever should be considered torture. I frankly don't see anything wrong with the traditional definition of what torture entails...

                  the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.


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                  • #10
                    Stress positions however ARE torture. That's like one of the most old forms of torture.

                    What you think when you see these si the best case scenario.. As in little loud music... maybe no sleep for one night.. have to stand for few hours and not move..

                    And beucase you support these, justice would be served should you ever have to experience the lightness of these methods, especially stress positions.

                    When you hear Abu Ghraib or whatever, you think of pyramids, stacking people together. You don't bother with the 'worse pictures' at all. This is, you would rather block them from your current knowledge of what has happened. Maybe you sleep better. But it doesn't change the fact that more happened than 'humiliating'.

                    And as long as you defend torturing ****s, you are against what democracies stands for. You can go ahead and argue, trivialize what torture is. To the rest of us, we know what it is. And it's not listening a Britney Spears song or standing for one hour. That's not what happens.

                    We've heard wittness testimonies of torture and those sound like the very common methods, usage of cables, beatdowns, torture of genitalia, all kinds of stuff. But of course you would disregard this as 'left wing propaganda'. That is, if you don 't hear O'Reilly saying it, you won't believe it. This kind of crew is the crew that burns books without reading them, because they'd rather not know.
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                    • #11
                      You can go ahead and argue, trivialize what torture is.


                      People who call things like prolonged standing, sleep deprivation and exposure to loud music "torture" are the ones who are trivializing the concept...

                      To the rest of us, we know what it is.


                      I don't think you do.
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                      • #12
                        It depends on the music. I understand some had to listen to Celine Dion

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                        • #13
                          Agreed.
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                          • #14
                            Why is this woman considered a reliable source of info anyway?
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Oerdin
                              I could see how some people would attack her since she was commanding at the time the abuses were exposed so it is possible she has a vested interest in accusing Rumsfield, however, what she says is still very interesting.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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