In Venezuela, It's Support Chavez — Or Else

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Flubber
True but Venezuala has never renounced its historical claim to about 62% of the land area on its neighbor Guyana, a country of less than 800,000 people. IN March of 2006 Venezuala added an additional star to its flag to represent this territory.

Venezuala might be a military minnow on a world stage but they are a whale compared to their neighbor

This wasn't the official reason for the star, and in any case, the claim has been ongoing for the best part of two centuries, it didn't start with Chavez. Just a weird quirk of South American politics that these bitter disputes last so long.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Sandman


This wasn't the official reason for the star, and in any case, the claim has been ongoing for the best part of two centuries, it didn't start with Chavez. Just a weird quirk of South American politics that these bitter disputes last so long.

All true but I was just trying to point out that Venezuela does have a longstanding grievance against an incredibly small neighbor. In that environment they are hardly a minnow.

What WAS the official reason for the star then ?? The bits In have seen indicate it was recent was was to "recognize the contributions of the Guayanan region to Venezuelan independence

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Oerdin
That election kind of becomes meaningless once you outlaw the opposition from being on the government owned TV and radio stations,

You are aware that the vast majority of the media in Venezuela is privately owned and it is all hostile to Chavez.

Chavez started censoring and closing down media outlets which were unsuportive during the last election. The media basically either had to be pro-Chavez or they were closed. That just isn't free or fair.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That's what Time says. You mentioned something about a secret ballot or lack thereof.

I would think that is implied in the quote.

[GePap]

Originally posted by snoopy369

You can continue to consider him a harmless bully, or recognize who and what he is. I compared him to Hitler perhaps rashly, but the european reaction to Hitler was similar ... ignoring what he was because they didn't want to acknowledge what he really was, a dictator and a power hungry loon. I sincerely hope he decides not to invade anyone ... but I'm not going to be surprised if he does, and I think it's prudent to learn from past mistakes rather than making them again ...

This tired, worthless crap AGAIN? HItler was NOT ignored. What happened is that the Europeans powers had diverging interests. Italy bandwaggoned, the UK and France would not make nice with the USSR, so Stalin decided to bandwaggon, and in the end the French and UK got beat on the battlefield fair and square.

I am sick of the "Hitler" myth. Its supremely annoying, and allows for this kind of faulty logic.

[Dinner]

They got beat on the battlefield in 1940 but the UK's defeat was not decisive. They did indeed keep fighting at sea, in the air, and on land in North Africa. Eventually they became a mojar fact in Nazi defeat. They certainly made more of an air impact then the USSR did throught the war. In fact the UK's bombing helped to slow German advances so that the USSR had a chance.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Chavez started censoring and closing down media outlets which were unsuportive during the last election. The media basically either had to be pro-Chavez or they were closed. That just isn't free or fair.

Unfortunately for you, that is just not true. What Venezuela actually did was they passed a law making it possible for politicians to sue for liable and slander. This immediately toned down some of the worst crap the private media was saying, since so much of it was blatant lies. For example, the kind of stuff that went on here, where the Clintons were accused of murdering Vince Foster would be actionable under the new law.

But you're right, the media there isn't free or fair. The vast majority of it is privately owned by the wealthy elites of Venezuela who have twisted and manipulated the news and lied through their teeth.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I would think that is implied in the quote.

So you're making an assertion based on an interpretation in a biased article?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
They got beat on the battlefield in 1940 but the UK's defeat was not decisive.

Which is completely and totally irrelevant to the point that GePap was making.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I would think that is implied in the quote.

So you're making an assertion based on an interpretation in a biased article?

Well how would you interpret it?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Well how would you interpret it?

I don't know, because I really don't know enough about how the Venezuelan electoral process works, nor do I know whether the comment was said as a threat or as a pep rally trying to whip up support for el jefe.

[GePap]

Polls show Chavez ahead, and even if some people will claim that people are afraid to say they are anti-Chavez, the polls show that one of the reasons Chavez is ahead is that many people who are not particulalrly happy with him trust the opposition even less.

The big issue in Venezuela today is crime, which is rampant, that and corruption, which Chavez's government has not fixed any more than the previous governments. Venezuela is also deeply polarized, with Chavez highly unpopular with the middle and upper classes and highly popular with the poor. INvariably the poor outnumber the other groups.

Edited thanks to Che's insight.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by GePap
the polls show that one of the reasons Chavez is ahead is that many people who are not particulalrly happy with him trust the opposition even more.

I think that last word should be less