In Venezuela, It's Support Chavez — Or Else

[Whoha]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
LOL Chavez = teh republicansCIA puppet!

fixed.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Yes, they boycotted for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

No, they announced a boycot months before any of the things you just mentioned happened.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Did you not notice the fact that most of the major opposition boycotted the vote?



Snoopy, I don't even like Chavez. He's a bully and an idiot, in addition to being a little bit loony.

But his opposition (both in Venezuela and abroad) has really delegitimised itself through its spurious claims of voterigging, and over-the-top pejoratives (like comparing him to Hitler).

I'm glad to see you continuing this fine tradition.

I don't care who boycotted the vote. I don't think that his party and allies could have fairly won 167 - or even 150 - of the 167 seats with or without the boycott. Now, 'fairly' doesn't just mean the votes were counted correctly, no doubt that Stalin's votes were counted properly as well... often dictators in the early years get by with their charismatic speeches and limiting the press to mostly/entirely favoring them.

You can continue to consider him a harmless bully, or recognize who and what he is. I compared him to Hitler perhaps rashly, but the european reaction to Hitler was similar ... ignoring what he was because they didn't want to acknowledge what he really was, a dictator and a power hungry loon. I sincerely hope he decides not to invade anyone ... but I'm not going to be surprised if he does, and I think it's prudent to learn from past mistakes rather than making them again ...

[KrazyHorse]

Sigh.

Some idiot in Venezuela gets a bug up his butt about the fact that the US was playing its dirty little games in South America yet again, so he makes it his mission in life to be the loon with the biggest soapbox. And how does the US media and public react? By looning it right back at him.

[Flubber]

We have a couple of people here at work that are from Venezuela and emigrated within the last couple of years. They related a few facts

1. How very very unsafe it is in much of Venezuela-- Basically they said that you always did som reconaissance before going to your car to avoid a carjacking

2. The cronyism in hiring is blatant in all the state industries. Skilled people are turfed, even relatively apolitical ones, in favour of Chavez buddies.

3. Many state industries are REALLY suffering due to the firings that responded to the strike. They just don't have enough of the skilled people to replace the highly skilled folks that were terminated-- There are actually a couple of projects in Canada with a heavy Venezuelan influx since the technical folks were expert in heavy oil and they got snapped up by the major oil companies

[Flubber]

ON dictatorship

he's no Hitler but I dislike any president changing the rules while in power to allow themselves a longer term. Flip it . . . how would you feel if last session Bush and president had managed to extend presidential term limits?

[Flubber]

Chavez will likely irreparably harm the oil industy in VEN in ways that most will never appreciate. The heavy oil projects that dominate there are easy to find but are difficult to extract efficiently. The major oil companies are continually developing new and better techniques and VEN will likely be left out of that.

To some extent they can hire expertise but honestly I don't see THAT many skilled people wanting to work there. Heck demand exceeds supply in a lot of disciplines so its not like those folks cannot get good jobs

[Sandman]

I compared him to Hitler perhaps rashly, but the european reaction to Hitler was similar ... ignoring what he was because they didn't want to acknowledge what he really was, a dictator and a power hungry loon. I sincerely hope he decides not to invade anyone ... but I'm not going to be surprised if he does, and I think it's prudent to learn from past mistakes rather than making them again ...

Hitler controlled a big hunk of the world's industry and had an enormous, modern military machine. Chavez is a just a minnow by comparison.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If you're an employee of the Venezuelan state oil company, you better support President Hugo Chavez when he stands for reelection next month —or you might lose your job.

That's what Time says. You mentioned something about a secret ballot or lack thereof.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That election kind of becomes meaningless once you outlaw the opposition from being on the government owned TV and radio stations,

You are aware that the vast majority of the media in Venezuela is privately owned and it is all hostile to Chavez. The private media, until recently, was slanderous and libelous towards Chavez, open lies which you seem to have bought hook, line, and sinker.

The problem with your dislike of Chavez, Oerdin, is that you seem to have no understanding of what the opposition is really like. They don't hate Chavez because he's a dictator, even if we assume that he is for the sake of argument. They hate him because he isn't their dictator. They hate him because he isn't looting the public treasury to make them richer, that he isn't using the military to crush the common rabble under heel like they used to do.

Do you realize that for the first time in that country's history, illiteracy is going to be wiped out--within the decade!!!!! Poor people are getting their first visits to a doctor in their whole lives. He is making a real difference for the better in the lives of the majority of Venezuelans.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Flubber
how would you feel if last session Bush and president had managed to extend presidential term limits?

Chavez, like Bush, can't simply change the constitution at a whim. In fact, unlike in the United States, that power rests with the Venezuelan people alone. Here in the U.S., we have never voted on any part of our constitution. Only our representatives have.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Flubber
1. How very very unsafe it is in much of Venezuela-- Basically they said that you always did som reconaissance before going to your car to avoid a carjacking

That's nothing new. I imagine it's likely spillover from neighboring Columbia, where kidnapping seems to be their number two industry, after the production of cocaine. Never hear anyone *****ing about how horrible Uribé is, and he is quite horrible.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Sandman


Hitler controlled a big hunk of the world's industry and had an enormous, modern military machine. Chavez is a just a minnow by comparison.

True but Venezuala has never renounced its historical claim to about 62% of the land area on its neighbor Guyana, a country of less than 800,000 people. IN March of 2006 Venezuala added an additional star to its flag to represent this territory.


Venezuala might be a military minnow on a world stage but they are a whale compared to their neighbor

[Flubber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Flubber
how would you feel if last session Bush and president had managed to extend presidential term limits?

Chavez, like Bush, can't simply change the constitution at a whim. In fact, unlike in the United States, that power rests with the Venezuelan people alone. Here in the U.S., we have never voted on any part of our constitution. Only our representatives have.

The process is irrelevant to me. I find it offensive for any leader to change to rules to maintain themselves in power. If the rule change is needed, make it but make it effective after the current presidency. Anything else is a recipe for abuse

[Flubber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


That's nothing new. I imagine it's likely spillover from neighboring Columbia, where kidnapping seems to be their number two industry, after the production of cocaine. Never hear anyone *****ing about how horrible Uribé is, and he is quite horrible.

I am sure that there are lots of leaders both better and worse than Chavez. I'll take that as a given and move on.


AS for crime and violence I would have thought that Chavez's initiatives should start to make some progress on this. Anecdotally it has not but perhaps there is some statistical evidence that could confirm or refute that