Time

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Spec
I sure we will...but my question is, how do you guys think it would work. That's all..

We'll be mostly indoors, and will have a realtively "earthlike" schedule, just like those who live far up in the polar circle. I mean, they have several months of pure night, and several months of pure day, yet their daily routine isn't far from our 24-hour one.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
If the theological meaning of praying toward the Kaaba is that it is the “symbol of the unity of all Muslims worldwide under the law of God”, there are several interesting consequences :
1. this obligation is of worldwide application, not “universewide”; on other planets other symbols can be defined;
2. The Mercator projection was invented in the 16th century and the Lambert projection in the 18th century, so we can consider that the Coran did not contemplated the difficulties resulting from multiple projections invented one thousand years later; and if the obligation is only a symbol, the unity must primarily be shown in all places where more than one Muslim are praying, without worrying in one place if other places have choosen another map projection.

You're playing on words.
World is defined very differently depending on the settings and only in a specific setting does it mean "planet"...
People talk about their worldview.
When America was discovered, it was a "New World".
etc...
Since all of this is traducted many times...
It could might as well have been universe.

The traditional rule relied on the shortest path on the surfact to Mecca, which does not depend on the projection.
So if you are using the traditional interpretation, it is irrelevant which projection you use.

[FrostyBoy]

Praise Science!

[reds4ever]

Lets all just use......Hammer Time!!

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme




The traditional rule relied on the shortest path on the surfact to Mecca, which does not depend on the projection.
So if you are using the traditional interpretation, it is irrelevant which projection you use.

If you are using the traditional interpretation of this symbol of unity, it is not best represented by the shortest path than by the general direction of the Kaaba; and in this respect the traditional interpretation resulted from the knowledge of the time reflected by the state of the art of map making.
I suggest to the next prophet to choose the symbol of unity of his worshippers amongst the natural guiding marks of the planets, such as the rising sun. Any historical landmark generally does not stand the test of time. Can you imagine the devastating moral effect that the destruction of Mecca could produce on the Muslims?

[DRoseDARs]

Or the outrage, depending on the scenario...

[Impaler[WrG]]

When you get into LEO the direction problem becomes tricky. I would suspect that they will deside for simplicity sake to just declare that praying towards Earth (perhaps looking at it from a viewport) is sufficient when not on it. Anyways once you get a bit further away thats all you can realy manage anyways as its just a dot in the sky.

Once your on another planet your essentialy looking at praying towards a star in a constilation. When its above the horizon thats rather simple, when its below the horizon just point at the point on the horizon ware the great circle connects the constilation and the zenith.

I suspect small wristwatch GPS/compass/computers will be developed and marketed by that time, they will not only chim to signal prayer time, they will also provide the proper direction. The device can be recalibrated on different planets as you hitch-hike across the galaxy.

Now for even more extream senarios, suppose your in a spacecraft traveling near the speed of light, how dose relitivistic time dialation affect religiously prescribed activities? If dialation is trivial (like in LEO) I would expect syncronization with Earth would be maintained, but at dialation incresses it would ultimatly become highly impractical or outright impossible to maintain syncronisity, rather such activities would have to be based on ship-time.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by DAVOUT


If you are using the traditional interpretation of this symbol of unity, it is not best represented by the shortest path than by the general direction of the Kaaba; and in this respect the traditional interpretation resulted from the knowledge of the time reflected by the state of the art of map making.

The knowledge of the time as you say was more advanced then you give it credit for.
The arabs had known for a while that the Earth was spherical (even the classical Greeks knew this) and they knew enough mathematics to calculate the shortest path to the qibla from anywhere on the surface of the Earth.
This has almost nothing to do with map making btw.
You can figure out the right direction with astronomical observations and mathematics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla

In the last 1000 years, several Muslim mathematicians and astronomers, such as al-Biruni, have discussed the correct way of determining the qibla direction from any point on the Earth's surface. All of them agree that at the two moments in each year when the Sun is directly overhead the Kaaba, the direction of shadows in any sunlit place will point directly away from the qibla. This happens on May 28 at 9:18 GMT and on July 16 at 9:27 GMT.

Of course, at any time, only half of the globe is sunlit. Fortunately, there are two moments in each year when the Sun is directly over the antipodes of the Kaaba. At that time, the direction of shadows in any sunlit place will point directly towards the qibla. This happens on November 28 at 21:09 GMT and January 16 at 21:29 GMT.

Because the Earth is almost a sphere, this is almost the same as saying that the qibla from a place is the direction in which a bird would start flying in order to get to the Kaaba by the shortest possible way.

[DAVOUT]

The knowledge of the time apparently does not exceed Erathostenes (276-195 bc), and the solution proposed by the Muslim mathematicians is true not only for the Kaaba, but also for all points of the same hemisphere (at different dates). The solution provided for the other hemisphere is less clear; the antipode of Mecca is located in the Pacific ocean, East of Iles TOUAMOTOU, and I hardly see how praying in the direction of this particular piece of ocean could symbolize unity, but I am not Muslim after all. The problem is that for a Muslim living in the antipodic hemisphere the path for Mecca is going through the antipode of Mecca which is far from being the shortest.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
The knowledge of the time apparently does not exceed Erathostenes (276-195 bc), and the solution proposed by the Muslim mathematicians is true not only for the Kaaba, but also for all points of the same hemisphere (at different dates). The solution provided for the other hemisphere is less clear; the antipode of Mecca is located in the Pacific ocean, East of Iles TOUAMOTOU, and I hardly see how praying in the direction of this particular piece of ocean could symbolize unity, but I am not Muslim after all. The problem is that for a Muslim living in the antipodic hemisphere the path for Mecca is going through the antipode of Mecca which is far from being the shortest.

Actually, you're wrong.
Using the solution in my last post, somebody in the opposite hemisphere would pray towards Mecca and AWAY from TOUAMOTOU whatever hemisphere he is in.
Read it carefully again, and I'll explain if you still don't understand.
Basically, there are two days and time when the shadows point AWAY from Mecca, and on those days and time, there is sunlight if you are in the same hemisphere as Mecca.
They are also two other days and time when the shadows point TOWARDS Mecca and on those days and time, there is sunlight if you are in the opposite hemisphere as Mecca.

Using these two rules, you can figure out the shortest path to Mecca anywhere on Earth.

Notice that you pray TOWARDS or AWAY from shadow depending on hemisphere to make sure that you always praying TOWARDS Mecca.



Again, you strongly underestimate the arabs by thinking that they would have only stuck to one rule which would have give the wrong answer in the opposite hemisphere...

Also, I'm not sure what's up with your comment about Erathostenes because :
1. The statement has no bearing on my point :
The classical Greeks knew more then enough to do any of this had they wished to, so saying that the arabs didn't know any more is not an argument
2. The statement is in fact false:
The arabs did in fact improve greatly on the greek measurements for Earth. Here's one example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_contributions_to_science#Medieval_Islamic_and_European_science

"In astronomy, Al-Batani improved the measurements of Hipparchus, preserved in the translation of the Greek Hè Megalè Syntaxis (The great treatise) translated as Almagest. Al-Batani also improved the precision of the measurement of the precession of the earth's axis."

It's for this reason, among others that the majority of stars with a proper name still have arabic names :

http://www.icoproject.org/star.html

Aldebaran, Algol, Arrakis, Betelgeuse, Deneb, Mizar, Rigel, Vega etc...