Tweet
Kind of slow catching on that all isn't rosey in Zimbabwe and most of Africa, Mobius.
Where have you been the last many decades?
Where have you been the last many decades?
-
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
"Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead -
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Kind of slow catching on that all isn't rosey in Zimbabwe and most of Africa, Mobius.
Where have you been the last many decades?
Oh ye of short attention span...
When the US was limbering up to take out Saddam, one of my arguments was that there were far better candidates for regime change/intervention such as, at the time Sierra Leone, Liberia and Zimbabwe...
When the owners FIX THE BLOODY SEARCH OPTION!!!, I will be able to show you threads started by myself pointing these facts out; being highly critical of the US' refusal to help Liberia, and being highly supportive of the UK's intervention in Sierra Leone!Comment
-
I know, I know. It's all our fault, certainly.
So is the fact you didn't get a lollipop at the doctor's office.Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
"Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ BraindeadComment
-
Ex-uncle, in this scenario.Originally posted by MOBIUS
Bob's your uncle!
Comment
-
I think a case could be made that it is now. Mugabe's done a lot of damage.Zim is not a 3rd World ****-hole
And they will, as there would be no shattered infrastructure, religious jihad, insurgency, sectarianism etc... Simply go in, capture Mugabe, set up democratic elections, have a clearly defined exit strategy and Bob's your uncle!
Yeah, ok. You interested in bridges? I got one I could sell ya.
Hey, if the Commonwealth nations want to team up and take down Mugabe, go for it... and we'll see just how simple, easy, and successful it all is.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
-
No doubt the US Navy, or me as far as this thread is concerened, does deter piracy wherever we go. However, there has been no significant attack against international shipping (more than say the crime off North Carolina) since the USS Cape St George ****ed a few of them up over a year ago.If anyone has been clearing up piracy off the Somali coast, it is the US Navy (which should be commended!).
But as I said, having just spent 2 months (August and September) in the Gulf of Aden as OOD on a DDG specifically looking for said pirates as well as the supposed hordes of refugees who also failed to materialize (oddly enough, a few but not many) and seeing nothing but open expanses of desolate water in all directions my observations are definetly better than "Piracy is rampant off the coast of Somalia, which has no effective government of its own to respond," which is all the article says. No dates, examples, references nothing.
But of course that is what you want to believe M, so I see why you went with a secondary vice primary source."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
-
The infrastructure is still there, it's mainly stuff like power stations running on minimum etc - China is helping keep things ticking over...Originally posted by Arrian
I think a case could be made that it is now. Mugabe's done a lot of damage.
You seem to think it is a big deal for some strange reason, but haven't come up with concrete reasons why it wouldn't work? As long as you can get neighbouring countries to grant access to Zim, it shouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, ok. You interested in bridges? I got one I could sell ya.
"Of course none of this will happen because nobody has the balls to use their common sense. Instead everyone is hoping Mugabe will just die soon and solve the problem that way while thousands die each month."Hey, if the Commonwealth nations want to team up and take down Mugabe, go for it... and we'll see just how simple, easy, and successful it all is.
-Arrian
Hey, we all know it won't happen no matter how relatively easy it would be...Comment
-
Well, I can see why you are getting this impression Mobius, after looking at the web it is absolutley amazing when constitutes an act of piracy for some of these groups. In any case, I don't consider Iranian gun boats stealing Iraqi fishermens papers as in this article:
to be some great worry of the world."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
-
I gave my reasoning, which you apparently don't agree with:
No one likes being occupied. Mugabe and his band of thugs (ZanuPF) will claim (ESPECIALLY if it's a commonwealth operation) that it's neocolonialism and that Zimbabweans must fight the "return of Rhodesia." The intervention would succeed, of course, just like the invasion of Iraq succeeded. The question is how will the occupation/reconstruction go (reconstuction = both infrastructure and regime). I'm just a tad skeptical that it would be a cakewalk.all the inevitable cries of imperialism (or perhaps neocolonialism, since that might be more biting). Mugabe's schtick as his popularity waned (as I'm sure you know) was to blame everything on eevil, eevil whitey. So yeah, send in the Marines! That'll work out great.
Much like Iraq, once the intervention takes out Mugabe, the population (or much of it) will assume that the occupiers have near-magical powers with which they will quickly fix everything, bringing peace & prosperity overnight. When this does not happen, things will turn ugly. Probably not as ugly as Iraq, but ugly nonetheless.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
-
WRONG!Originally posted by Patroklos
why exacly did the regime crush all the pirate groups along the coast?
You yourself stated it is the US Navy that is mainly stopping the pirates from sailing...
Get your facts straight!
Oh look, just last week!No dates, examples, references nothing.
Hmmm, the regime obviously is still working on crushing them.
Note how it is the Islamists that are tracking down the pirates, when the US-backed warlords did nothing about it...
Anyway, this thread is about Zim - I used Somalia as an example of what happens if you run away from carrying out your responsibilities (US 'cutting and running'!) - if you want me to continue to run rings around you, kindly start a Somalia thread for me to make you cry in...
Comment
-
No, I said that we no doubt have a deterent effect. We are definetly not the ones disbanding the pirate camps along the coast (which the Islamasists are doing because they want to reestablish commercial shipping).You yourself stated it is the US Navy that is mainly stopping the pirates from sailing...
In retospect I am using info you do not have available. Most people would consider it an oportunity and learn, though you are to busy imploding over the hole this creates in your internet understanding of life.
Wait, I thought they weren't? God you are such a knot of inconclusive half thoughts It is a wonder why anyone even talks to you.Note how it is the Islamists that are tracking down the pirates, when the US-backed warlords did nothing about it...
In any case I can't help if you can't understand what I saw with my own eyes. Some of us live this stuff M, as opposed to just reading about it."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
-
It looks like as per usual you have been undone on all counts, I would advice retiring gracefully with the full knowledge you will not do so.Anyway, this thread is about Zim - I used Somalia as an example of what happens if you run away from carrying out your responsibilities (US 'cutting and running'!) - if you want me to continue to run rings around you, kindly start a Somalia thread for me to make you cry in..
It is great you can leave the country for 6 months and people don't change a bit."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
-
I countered your first points. This is a shattered and beaten population for the most part, apart from a thuggish and bullying minority.Originally posted by Arrian
I gave my reasoning, which you apparently don't agree with:
How if you hold democratic elections? This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. There is nothing really to reconstruct (unless an invading force ****s the place up, but this regime is a house of cards - their main weapons are fear and sticks!). There is even a democratic process nominally in existence (except Mugabe did a Bush with the elections a couple of years ago!).No one likes being occupied. Mugabe and his band of thugs (ZanuPF) will claim (ESPECIALLY if it's a commonwealth operation) that it's neocolonialism and that Zimbabweans must fight the "return of Rhodesia." The intervention would succeed, of course, just like the invasion of Iraq succeeded. The question is how will the occupation/reconstruction go (reconstuction = both infrastructure and regime). I'm just a tad skeptical that it would be a cakewalk.
-Arrian
You go in, you neutralise Mugabe, keep the country ticking over with aid until an election can be organised in 6-12 months and leave.
As for 'no one likes being occupied' - maybe not, but have you any idea just how many semi-permanent UN peacekeeping forces or NATO bases in foreign countries there are around the World!!?
Take Liberia - they were begging for US intervention! A few hundred well armed US troops would have sorted that place out in ten seconds flat, but Bush would have none of it!
Comment
-
Oh yeah, I remember you...Originally posted by Patroklos
It looks like as per usual you have been undone on all counts, I would advice retiring gracefully with the full knowledge you will not do so.
It is great you can leave the country for 6 months and people don't change a bit.
I have just destroyed your argument on all counts and yet you plough on as if nothing had happened.
Exhibit #1: A Somali pirate attack this month!
Go on, reply again: I dare you to make more of a horse's arse than you already have!
Comment
-
Right, I'm going - it's Friday night and it's time to leave work!
Watch Patroklos claim victory because I have to go now...
Comment
Comment