Democrats defy Pelosi, elect Hoyer House leader

[Dinner]

Re: Democrats defy Pelosi, elect Hoyer House leader

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Nothing like solidarity.

That is a stupid or at least completely uneducated statement.

I mean it. Completely clueless.

Unlike the Republicans the Democrats don't simply have their leadership annoint someone and then just run through the motions of voting. There is an actual debate with give and take and at the end of it all everyone, including the leadership, gets one vote each. The leadership can only suggest and attempt to persade people but they can't strong arm the rank and file the way the Republicans do.

That's a democracy and there is nothing to be ashamed about in doing that. You end up with more qualified people in positions of authority then with the dictatorial "I SAID YOU WILL ELECT MY MAN" approach the Republican leadership takes. That's just another reason why the Democratic Party is superior to the Republican Party.

[SlowwHand]

You can mean it all you want.

[Bosh]

Good, Hoyer is a bit of a slick bastard but at least he isn't a corrupt pork king like Murtha.

[Dinner]

True. I do wish the guy actually wanted to reform the campaign finance laws rather then just take the Republican dirty money machine and make a Democratic copy of it.

[Cyclotron]

I can draw no other conclusion from this thread than that Sloww hates democracy.

[Timexwatch]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Why Slow? All Pelosi did was recommend her friend for the spot. She didn't campaign for him, she didn't go office to office extolling his virtues. She did nothing except say she likes Murtha. Hardly an embarassment for Pelosi.

Hardly. She went from recommending to making calls in support of Murtha and having people twist arms over the course of the weekend. It's unrealistic to think that the speaker didn't make some sort of effort to influence this race. Besides, she doesn't like Hoyer to begin with.

http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/111506/pelosi.html

The WaPo also had a story about the hardball tactics that were being used.

Unlike the Republicans the Democrats don't simply have their leadership annoint someone and then just run through the motions of voting. There is an actual debate with give and take and at the end of it all everyone, including the leadership, gets one vote each.

Funny, Alexander went into the Senate Whip race expecting to have a few more votes than Lott and somehow, magically, managed to come out ahead. He was so confident that he dropped letters in the mail thanking 27 Republican Senators for their votes.

And on the House side, why did Pelosi have to horse trade heavily to make sure Clyburn got the Whip Position? Given a fair vote, Rahm would've wrapped it up. It's Democracy for everony until a major constituency needs to be satisfied. Say what you want, but the game is played how the game is played. Hello new boss, same as the old one. This isn't Solon's Athens.

And Pelosi should thank god that Murtha didn't win, because that would've kneecapped her entire reform agenda. Who wants a guy who narrowly got pinched in ABSCAM and who is one of the dirtiest politicos in Washington crippling the Dem majority the way that the DeLay mess did?

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
I can draw no other conclusion from this thread than that Sloww hates democracy.

That's why you're an idiot.

[Admiral]

I really couldn't bring myself to care who won. Murtha, porkmeister 2000, or Hoyer "we need to close the K street gap." That being said, it seems that both are behind Pelosi's agenda, so at least for the short term, it shouldn't matter.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
That's why you're an idiot.

Of course not. My opinion is not why I'm an idiot, it's only symptomatic of my idiocy. Even an idiot would know that.

As others have said, debate and difference are at the heart of a functioning democracy. It is precisely the relative lack of debate and difference within the Republican leadership and congress that is so worrisome. Anyone who mocks debate as obviously stupid and disorganized while implicitly supporting blind, uncompromising order and follow-the-leader "politics" hates democracy.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Carry on. Far be it for me to dissuade people from talking about Murtha and Pelosi! Or even how Hoyer is marginally less corrupt than Murtha.

You're not implying that we have corrupt Democrat officials, are you?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

"I am not a member of any organized party — I am a Democrat." - Will Rogers, 1935

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
You're not just arguing with me. You're arguing with the party as they were quoted.

"We'll recover."
"Things will get better."
"Yeah, we look like dumbasses."

A lot better than what the other party is saying for the next two years.