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  • Harper turns out to be a loser (again)

    From CBC:



    KITCHENER, Ont. (CP) - Ottawa is setting its sights on drivers who are high on drugs when they get behind the wheel, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Friday as he announced legislation to give police powerful new tools in their search for impaired motorists.

    Canadian society needs to take the threat posed by those who drive under the influence of drugs as seriously as the one posed by drinking and driving, Harper told a news conference in Kitchener, Ont., an hour's drive west of Toronto.

    "Just as governments once took action on drunk driving, we must act today to make drug-impaired driving just as socially unacceptable," he said, flanked on stage by beaming members of the lobby group Mothers Against Drunk Driving Canada.

    "The legislation will, among other things, provide police with more tools to detect drug-impaired drivers."

    While the event bore the hallmarks of an election stump speech - apple-cheeked children, Canadian flags, a boisterous crowd and a tough-on-crime measure opposition members would have trouble opposing - Harper bristled at the suggestion he was in pre-election mode.

    "We promised to deal toughly with crime when we were running for office," he said when asked if the many justice bills currently before the House of Commons were being used as window dressing for his minority Conservative government.

    "Yes, we have a fair number of justice bills . . . what's contentious about that? This is only contentious legislation if you don't really want to pass it in the first place. That's the problem with the opposition."

    The Opposition Liberals dismissed the announcement as a hypocritical photo-op, noting that the Tories recently announced $4 million in cuts to the RCMP's budget for drug-impaired detection training.

    "It's pretty hard for the prime minister to make a claim about toughening legislation and giving the impression of being law and order, and at the same time starving the policy financially," said Liberal MP Dan McTeague.

    Harper said the RCMP program simply wasn't working.

    "We want to make sure . . . the resources we spend go into programs that are effective," he said. "Our evaluation was that program was not effective. So obviously we're looking at better ways of addressing the problem."

    The legislation, to be introduced when the House of Commons returns from its Remembrance Day break, will also increase penalties and "strengthen presumptions" of breath and blood tests - even though suitable tests for drug impairment, apart from blood tests, aren't available in Canada.

    "There are technological challenges in terms of testing for certain kinds of drugs," Harper acknowledged.

    "There are some tests available and there are ways of strengthening the legislation to make it easier to arrest and get convictions for clear cases" of driving under the influence of drugs, he said.

    "There are things we can do, and will be doing."

    The law, as it stands, makes it very difficult for officers to arrest someone for drug-impaired driving, said Waterloo police Sgt. Dave Reibel.

    "Unless we can find some evidence, like if they were actually in possession of drugs or if they readily admit to consuming drugs . . . then (we can't) arrest them," said Reibel, who attended Harper's announcement.

    Andrew Murie, chief executive of MADD Canada, said the legislation will need to deliver in three key areas to be effective.

    If a driver thought to be impaired passes a roadside blood alcohol test but fails a standard sobriety test, such as walking a straight line or touching their nose, officers need the authority to bring them to the police station, Murie said.

    Once there, the driver would be examined by a drug recognition expert looking for symptoms of drug impairment. Should the expert determine the person is on drugs, police would then need the power to take either a blood or saliva sample.

    "We feel very confident (the proposed legislation) will include the things we need to have," Murie said after emerging from a closed-door meeting with Harper.

    The proposed changes are long overdue for the parents of 16-year-old David Rider, who burned to death in 1999 a multi-vehicle crash near Ottawa caused by a driver high on marijuana.

    Cannabis needs to be treated just like alcohol when it comes to impaired driving, said Rider's mother Barbara.

    "If you're (drug) impaired then you get all the (legal) implications that come with it," she said. "This one moment involved 11 people: five died, one man has had his leg amputated, another man cannot use his arm . . . (and) our son burned to death. This was a terrible, terrible accident."
    In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

  • #2
    Got so many stuff wrong here.

    First, WTF is a "drug recognition expert"? Sounds like spintalk to say people will go through BS interviews with "specialists" who are not doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc.

    Moreover, the reason we forbid drunk driving is because it's proven to be detrimental to your driving. Which is not the case of all drugs: some of them, at certain doses, actually improve your accuracy and reactiveness. But there will be no way to properly assess the amount of drugs in the body, only its presence. Also there can be drug remnants that stay much longer than the physical high.

    The bottom line is that Harper is BSing on a "though on crime" policy, with a botched legislation whose sole effect will be to make it a crime to commit a crime (drug consumption).
    In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

    Comment


    • #3
      OMG HOW DARE THEY DEMAND DRIVERS TO BE SOBER?

      Which is not the case of all drugs: some of them, at certain doses, actually improve your accuracy and reactiveness.
      spoken like a true European

      Comment


      • #4
        Read my post. I'm criticizing the lack of precision and research behind the law and Harper's political hypocrisy.
        In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

        Comment


        • #5
          Which is not the case of all drugs: some of them, at certain doses, actually improve your accuracy and reactiveness.
          I'm glad I don't live near you.

          "I'm a better driver when I'm high!"

          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

          Comment


          • #6
            Dude get in touch with reality. At moderate doses marijuana reduces the probability of a car crash. Then it goes up, but you can sustain an awful lot of it before it becomes as bad as alcohol.
            In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have far more serious complaints with this government.
              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Harassing hundreds of thousands of people for using drugs is pointless and a major right violation. This is just a symptom of a large scale wrong.
                In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oncle Boris
                  Dude get in touch with reality. At moderate doses marijuana reduces the probability of a car crash. Then it goes up, but you can sustain an awful lot of it before it becomes as bad as alcohol.
                  BULL****ING****! No way, no how.

                  That being said, the real problem is how to determine if someone is high right then and there, instead of someone who was high yesterday. With alcohol, we can do this. With pot, IIRC, we cannot. That's a problem for enforcement.

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well tough luck, French scientists published a study showing otherwise in 2005.
                    In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oncle Boris
                      Harassing hundreds of thousands of people for using drugs is pointless and a major right violation. This is just a symptom of a large scale wrong.
                      We agree: If Canada has hundreds of thousands of people driving cars while they're using drugs, it indeed is a major problem or "a large scale wrong" as you put it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Oncle Boris
                        Well tough luck, French scientists published a study showing otherwise in 2005.
                        I'm all for legalization, btw. But driving under the influence of MJ is a bad idea. I've done some very stupid things in my time, and I can tell you: BAD IDEA. I'm lucky nothing happened.

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          re: VJ



                          I was talking about prohibition in general. The point was that this botched bill was another symptom of the large scale abuse (replying to Wezil).
                          In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oncle Boris
                            Harassing hundreds of thousands of people for using drugs is pointless and a major right violation. This is just a symptom of a large scale wrong.

                            Being of libertarian bent I am predisposed to agree but there are issues of public safety at hand. If drivers are impaired regardless of rationale the government does have the mandate to curtail activities (legal or illegal substances included) that put people at risk.

                            As for your pot refence showing better driving performance who did they have in the study the pot smoking equivalent of Dr. Johnny Fever.


                            Johnny demonstrated his freakish tolerance for alcohol in an on-air sobriety test administered by an Ohio State Trooper. Johnny's reflexes improved as he consumed more and more alcohol, thus enraging the trooper.
                            "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                            “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              fakeboris, you're not going to get any sympathy here...

                              edit: and I mean here as in poly, not just me
                              Last edited by Kuciwalker; November 16, 2006, 16:28.

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