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Some crimes really make me speechless

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  • Some crimes really make me speechless

    In this case the murder of a prisoner in the prison of Siegburg (Germany).

    The brutality of this case (as well as the incompetence of the wards, who didn´t notice anything although the victim pressed the panic button) surpasses all boundaries.

    The victim (20 years old) was locked away in a cell with the perpetrators (20,19 and 17 years old).
    This saturday the 3 men decided that they wannted to kill their victim (why? Out oif curiosity, because they wanted to see how someone dies)
    What followed was a 12 hours lasting matyrdom of the victim.
    During these 12 hours they forced him to drink a liquid with hot powder, water, urine and saliva and eat a tube of toothpaste (and when he puked from this they also forced him to eat his own vomit), sexually abused him several times and beat him with devices they assembled from furniture (and could turn it into parts of the mobiliar back again so that noone would suspect these poarts to be used as torture devices).
    The victim was able to press the panic button once, but when the prison guards arrived the culprits convinced them that the button was accidentally pressed. Because of the loud noises coming out of the cell inmates of other cells complained, which resulted in the prison guards were summoned once again, this time entering the cell, but the culprits just said, that they had moved mobiliar around (their victim obviuosly was lying unconsciously in his bed and therefore was unable to say anything)
    When they finally were done with him (and wanted to finish their crime) they tried to hang their victims with cables, fixing these cables between toilet door and frame and forcing their victim to climb onto a bucket so that they could kick it away after they had positioned the sling around his neck.
    But this final phase of the matyrdom of the victim took 2 hours, as they failed three times (two times because their cable teared from the weight of the victim and the third time because, after they lowered him onto the ground after 1,5 minutes of strangling he was unconscious but still alive, so they beat him until he woke up and forced him onto the bucket for a fourth time, which is when they succeeded in killing him).

    They even almost succeeded in making people believe that everything was de facto just a suicide, but obviously they had made a mistake or two, so that the people who examined the case took a second look, resulting into these cruel details coming into light.

    Sorry, only References are in german:
    Nachrichten, Veranstaltungstipps, Onlinespiele, Fahrplan - alles was Sie für den Tag in Köln brauchen!




    IMHO even the things done in Abu Ghraib pale in comparison to this specially sick case.
    Normally I´m against death penalty, but such cases makes me thing that culprits in rare cases llike these should, as a penalty, endure the same things they did to their victim (which, in this case would result in their death of course).
    Either this, or using the ancient practice of declaring someone to be vogelfrei (free as a bird) meaniung that such people are outcast from society and everyone who commits a crime against people who are vogelfrei won´t be punished for this, even if he murders them.

    There is also the question about how this (12 hours lasting matyrdom) could go undetected until the vitcim was dead, even though wards entered the cell and even though he püressed the panic button.
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

  • #2
    "IMHO even the things done in Abu Ghraib pale in comparison to this specially sick case."

    Seriously? Do you know they did more then put people on cheerleader pyramids? You want to see the 'real nasty pics' ?

    This seems like pretty normal in the field of very violent behaviour. I see this crap all the time in the papers. People beating each other with axes to the head like 10 times..

    there was even the case of neonazis who tortured this retarded fellow, chained him on a hot .. the thing that warms the houses. Beat him with cables, carved with knives..

    Yeah, they got like a year or two for torture .

    This is surely worthy of thread and all, I'm saying this is not even ultra violence yet and this happens ALL the time. It would be shocking if this wasn't so present all the time.



    What I'ms aying is that this is normal violent criminal behavior.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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    • #3
      Hm, what shocks me most is the timeframe of 12 hours, most crimes of equal violence I read of only have the victim suffer for 1-2 hours before he/she is dead.

      And of course it is interesting that that it could take place in a prison without the prison guard noticing anything (and without them being involved in the vcrime of course).

      As for my comparison with Abu Ghraib:
      In one thing the inmates of Abu Ghraib suffered more, as their matyrdom went on for months.
      But AFAIK the amount of violence didn´t reach the heights it did in this case. At least from Abu Ghraib I haven´t heard of sexual abuse and other things which resemble the things done by the prisoners in Siegburg.
      I only heard of mock executions and the things they had in public available pictures (like the pyramid you mentioned and this female private habuing a üprisoner at a leash).
      (but if you have more informations about Abu Ghraib, Pekka, I would be interested to hear them)
      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

      Comment


      • #4
        "But AFAIK the amount of violence didn´t reach the heights it did in this case. At least from Abu Ghraib I haven´t heard of sexual abuse and other things which resemble the things done by the prisoners in Siegburg."

        You haven't? Then read the news. Just google it and exclude the clearly weird sites.
        In da butt.
        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pekka
          "But AFAIK the amount of violence didn´t reach the heights it did in this case. At least from Abu Ghraib I haven´t heard of sexual abuse and other things which resemble the things done by the prisoners in Siegburg."

          You haven't? Then read the news. Just google it and exclude the clearly weird sites.
          O.K.,
          if the things which Wikipedia talks about (with Referense to SBS) are true, then Abu Ghraib has the same amount of violence as Siegburg (and sometimes even greater, as in the case which came in to light in 2006 where they cut the tongue from a prisoner who is lying on the ground)
          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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          • #6
            If prisoners have 12 hours to just do anything they want without guards ever walking the cell block to keep an eye on things then something is wrong.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Oerdin
              If prisoners have 12 hours to just do anything they want without guards ever walking the cell block to keep an eye on things then something is wrong.
              The prison is understaffed and they obviously chose a good time for their crime, i.e. the night from a saturday to sunday where there are les guards than during the day.

              But even if there had been patrols, for example once an hour, the question is if it had changed anything.

              As the victim was able to press the panic button (which is installed in every cell and summons the guards) a guard arrived and was convinced by the culprits that they pressed it by mistake

              Then a second time a guard even entered the cell when the culprits were so loud that prisoners from a neighboring cell complained to the guards but didn´t notice that anything as wrong (as the victim lay unconscious in bed and the guards perhaps thought he was asleep, as it as during the night)

              I don´t know about the prison but I suspect that the prisoners hear in advance that a guard is coming (opening prison doors and the like) and therefore can prepare for this (in this case beating the victim unconscious and laying him into his bed).

              Perhaps surveillance cameras in every cell could help (which obviously aren´t installed in this prison).
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

              Comment


              • #8
                Another argument for death penalty, even though the argument was unintentional.
                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                • #9
                  Perhaps surveillance cameras in every cell could help (which obviously aren´t installed in this prison).
                  sigh...

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                  • #10
                    I'd say this is an argument for the death penality. If you're already in prison for life why not commit more crimes in prison since it can't get worse? Run your prison gang and kill people at will. What can they do? Put you in prison?

                    Taking away TV time just doesn't cut it while solitary confinement for the rest of their lives would be considered "cruel" (by whiny people anyway). In the US when that stuff happens then the criminals get charged with first degree murder, are likely repeat offenders, and so get the death penality. Other prisoners see that as bad as things are they at least aren't getting hanged though if they commit more crimes while in prison they just might get hanged. Thus there is a deterent effect.

                    Personally I'd like to see hangings happen with in 1-2 years of a guilty verdict but even if the system is inefficent it is still better then not having the death penalty.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                    • #11
                      Oerdin: Germany doesn't have life in prison, IIRC.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                      • #12
                        A person in prison for life without parole has absolutely nothing to lose. Name one thing more dangerous.

                        For this discussion, naming Ming will NOT suffice.
                        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DinoDoc
                          Oerdin: Germany doesn't have life in prison, IIRC.
                          We have.
                          But AFAIK even if sentenced for life can apply for parole after a certain time (unless you commited really cruel crimes or there are other reasons why you shoudl stay locked away forever).
                          Therefore even prisoners sentenced for life seldom stay in prison for the rest of their life but most of them are released earlier.

                          Two of the three culprits probably could be sentenced according to the adults criminal law (but the 17 years old probably only according to the youth criminal law) therefore it could be that they are sentenced for life.

                          (Those locked away for life normally are transferred into other, high security prisons, which Siegburg wasn´t, therefore, perhaps, they wouldn´t be able to do the same thing there which they did in Siegburg)

                          But of course, even locked up for life probably is nothing compared to the things their victim had to endure
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sounds like a scene from Oz.

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                            • #15
                              The monkeys?
                              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                              Comment

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