If you are a citizen of another country and there is a draft,will they ship you back?

[notyoueither]

Obligation is not a communist invention.

National service doesn't mean wearing a uniform.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Because there is a culture of apathy.

Put some bite into it. Tell people they can skip, and they lose something and see how many line up to lose.

You could also allow people to reapply later if they made a mistake. Lots of trash needs picked up.

I think you're overestimating the civic-mindedness of most people.

Half the people my age I know don't vote (and usually have some lame-ass pseudo-intellectual justification for it too). Why the **** would somebody like that choose to spend a year in a firewatch tower or something to do something he doesn't see the value of anyway?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Obligation is not a communist invention.

National service doesn't mean wearing a uniform.

Forced national service is a necessary evil when you run into situations which less manipulative incentive schemes are not equipped to handle. It's just evil otherwise.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


I think you're overestimating the civic-mindedness of most people.

Half the people my age I know don't vote (and usually have some lame-ass pseudo-intellectual justification for it too). Why the **** would somebody like that choose to spend a year in a firewatch tower or something to do something he doesn't see the value of anyway?

We could create a culture of service, as opposed to a culture of entitlement.

[Dinner]

It really depends on a few factors. If one or both parents are from the country in question then in many countries the child would automatically be a citizen and thus subject to the draft. In WW1 the US had big problems with European powers because many wouldn't allow people to renounce citizenship and would acknowledge duel citizenship. That meant if an Italian immigrated to the US had kids (either with a local wife or another immigrant Italian spouse) then the child would automatically gain Italian citizenship. Great, right? Wrong. In WW1 there were lots of Americans of Italian decent doing business in Italy because for several years Italy was officially a neutral power which geographically could sell to both sides. Thus American businessmen who spoke Italian (mainly Italian immigrants or the children of Italian immigrants) were selling huge amounts of American made goods in Italy at the time the Italians joined the war (because the Italians intended to resell them to which ever side paid the most).

That meant that you had thousands of military aged male American citizens in Italy at the time Italy declared war. TThe Italians promently drafted huge numbers of them claiming they were Italians even though most had been born in the US or immigrated to the US decades before. It was big trouble for both governments though the Italians needed the manpower so much they drafted them any way.

[KrazyHorse]

We would create a dual culture of well-fed helots and citizens.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Forced national service is a necessary evil when you run into situations which less manipulative incentive schemes are not equipped to handle. It's just evil otherwise.

Nobodies' forcing it if some civic right is conferred by it as opposed to liberty being denied for not obeying.

[KrazyHorse]

I would be frightened of the electorate created by your scheme, despite the fact that I would be part of it.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
We would create a dual culture of well-fed helots and citizens.

We could allow helots an easy way out. Serve.

[KrazyHorse]

They wouldn't. And I don't want to live in that society.

Your scheme would further polarise society into those who care and those who don't. It would not, despite your wishful thinking, make those who don't care care.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I would be frightened of the electorate created by your scheme, despite the fact that I would be part of it.

Electors more alive to the need to pay attention?

You're right. It's a dangerous idea.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
They wouldn't. And I don't want to live in that society.

Your scheme would further polarise society into those who care and those who don't. It would not, bespite your wishful thinking, make those who don't care care.

That would be a choice. One that draftees do not enjoy.

[KrazyHorse]

Electors of whom a far greater proportion are enamoured with the idea of national glory.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


That would be a choice. One that draftees do not enjoy.

I do not disagree that the rights of the individual would be less trampelled upon. I simply feel that society as a whole would be in far more danger.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Electors of whom a far greater proportion are enamoured with the idea of national glory.

Why national glory? Service could and should involve international service.