French protectionists have no shame...

[Wycoff]

Good for the E.U. The U.S. should do the same.

[Victor Galis]

Well something needs to be done about rising CO2 levels.

Where are higher oil prices when you need them?

[Dinner]

This really is nothing more then protectionist garbage especially since not a single Kyoto signatory will make their goals and most are actually far worse off even after they cheated and rigged the start datas. File a WTO case against them.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Well something needs to be done about rising CO2 levels.

Where are higher oil prices when you need them?

You don't see the obvious hypocracy here? They signed the treaty then ignored the actual implimentation. Now they want to tarrif out foreign made goods on the spurious claim that it is a carbon tax. Just the same old French protectionism with a new PC bow tie on it.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Oerdin
They signed the treaty then ignored the actual implimentation.

Excuse me, the EU pollutes less than other major powers compared by GNP.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Wezil
The US should do what we did - Sign on to Kyoto with no plan of meeting the commitments.

That would be every single country which signed that terriblely flawed and unworkable treaty.

It's always been garbage it will always be garbage. Call back when there is a frame work which covers the other 90% of the world's population.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Oerdin


You don't see the obvious hypocracy here? They signed the treaty then ignored the actual implimentation. Now they want to tarrif out foreign made goods on the spurious claim that it is a carbon tax. Just the same old French protectionism with a new PC bow tie on it.

Treaty being followed or not, French environmental standards are higher than those in China. Using a tariff to disincentivize moving production to China and polluting more is a good thing.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Treaty being followed or not, French environmental standards are higher than those in China. Using a tariff to disincentivize moving production to China and polluting more is a good thing.

Good thing or not it is a tarrif which the WTO, rightly, will call illegal and order retalitory tarrifs against the EU. They'll lose a lot more then they gain since the WTO allows people to recover damages plus for additional punative tarrifs to be put in place to discourage such illegal behavior.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Oerdin


You don't see the obvious hypocracy here? They signed the treaty then ignored the actual implimentation. Now they want to tarrif out foreign made goods on the spurious claim that it is a carbon tax. Just the same old French protectionism with a new PC bow tie on it.

So if it is this easy why doesn´t the USA just ratify it and then do the same?

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That would be every single country which signed that terriblely flawed and unworkable treaty.

It's always been garbage it will always be garbage. Call back when there is a frame work which covers the other 90% of the world's population.

Well, I have at times proposed such a framework, but it has generally been rejected as a horrible idea. Apparently people don't like the brutal elegance of the global nuclear war solution. Not only does it permanently reduce emissions, nuclear winter immediately counteracts past warming.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Good thing or not it is a tarrif which the WTO, rightly, will call illegal and order retalitory tarrifs against the EU. They'll lose a lot more then they gain since the WTO allows people to recover damages plus for additional punative tarrifs to be put in place to discourage such illegal behavior.

I would argue that allowing companies to pollute to their heart's content with impunity is an unfair subsidy.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST

So if it is this easy why doesn´t the USA just ratify it and then do the same?

Just Republican stupidity really. Clinton signed the treaty but the Republicans in Congress refused to ratify it then Bush got into office and unsigned it so even if the Democrats wanted to ratify it now Bush won't resign it.

I'm afraid we'll have to wait until Bush is gone. The good news is once the guys with all the connections to big oil leave (I.E. when Bush leaves) it is likely that the next President, Republican or Democrat, will make some sort of carbon initiative.

Also what truly exposes this "carbon tax" as a pack of lies is that even states like California which have passed there own carbon cutting plans would STILL get tarrifed. So this really is BS. Other wise why wouldn't Californian made goods be exempt?

[Spiffor]

The main reason for this proposal is the fact that environmentalism is the hot issue currently in France, and the election is in 6 months.

De Villepin is making a feelgood proposal that will be shot down by the EU or WTO, and he'll be able to show people how eco-friendly he is, while teh evil foreigners willingly destroy our planet and our future wallets.

OTOH, I fully support taxing miles for any product that is produced locally, and I fully support taxing production from developed countries that have smaller eco-laws than us. It is time we actually do something about global pollution, and such are steps to that aim, among many others.

This being a typical FT article, it focused on international trade and presented the issue solely through the scope of protectionnism. It barely mentioned De Villepin's proposal of creating a car-tax in big cities. This very unpopular proposal (among car-drivers at least) has nothing to do with protectionnism, but it has very much to do with the environment being hot on the agenda. You can be sure that, if these proposals get some real media attention, the domestic tax on cars in big cities will be the one on which everybody will focus (and argue), by far. The miles tax and the carbon tax are just common sense.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Spiffor
OTOH, I fully support taxing miles for any product that is produced locally, and I fully support taxing production from developed countries that have smaller eco-laws than us. It is time we actually do something about global pollution, and such are steps to that aim, among many others.

You have my vote!!!!!1!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Taxing agricultural miles

Drive those nails into the economic coffins of developing countries!