Where do slavs come from?

[Drogue]

Back off topic, *damn* those girls are amazing Especially the 1st/4th

[LordShiva]

They're actually all the same girl

Joanna Krupa

[Heresson]

Joanna

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Drogue
Back off topic, *damn* those girls are amazing Especially the 1st/4th

Ach, I thought 1st/4th and 2nd/3rd/5th were the same. I've been fooled by make-up

[Barnabas]

Was former yugoslavia badly romanized?
I mean, because romance langauges were completely replaced there

Or did the slavs just kill a lot of people there?

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Was former yugoslavia badly romanized?
I mean, because romance langauges were completely replaced there

Or did the slavs just kill a lot of people there?

Sometimes I wonder the same. But not only Yugoslavia, also cisdanuvian Hungary, Austria, Switzerland, southern Germany, England.
Romance elements in English come from a handful Germanic Vikings who picked up French while being a Roman province had no lasting effect, it seems.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Was former yugoslavia badly romanized?
I mean, because romance langauges were completely replaced there

Or did the slavs just kill a lot of people there?

I think the main reason is exodus of romance people, especially to the cities on the shores; these remained romance for much longer. I think Dalmatian language went extinct only in XIX century... Some got slavicised surely, after all Bulgarians and post-Yugoslavians are much darker than "normal" Slavs. They had to absorb local population.

Also, they took refuge in territories we now know as Romania, and pushed out some Slavs, other they romanised.

[Ned]

The Franks were formed from a confederation of German tribes that included the Sicambri. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks The Sciambri claimed they migrated from the mouth of the Danube and are Cimmerian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicambri The Cimmerians were thought to be speak "Iranian." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerian If so, there should be some trace of Iranian in Dutch, which descends from Old Frankish.

Does anyone know if Dutch has any words that would be of Iranian origin?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Was former yugoslavia badly romanized?
I mean, because romance langauges were completely replaced there

Or did the slavs just kill a lot of people there?

The same question could be asked of England. Did the Germans exterminate the Britons?

I think the general assumption once upon a time was yes. But, IIRC, new research demonstrates that the Germans did not engage in a general slaughter of the Britons. They co-mingled. But the German language prevailed. Why?

[Dr Strangelove]

There have been two somewhat contradictory gene marker studies which attempted to trace the lineage of the British people. One used marker common among the people of northeast Wales, whom the researchers felt were most likely the most 'pure' Britons. The marker was found to be more common in the Irish and the people of an area of northwest Spain known as Galatia, but less common in England. Another study traced a marker common in western Denmark, and northern Netherlands. This study found this marker, which they presumed to be a marker for Saxon lineage, to be only moderately more common in England than in France, Ireland and Spain.
It appears that the British are only a little Celtic and/or Teutonic. It's evident that the migration of peoples from the once great worldwide British empire has been more robust than previously thought. The BNP is too late by a generation or so.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III



Sometimes I wonder the same. But not only Yugoslavia, also cisdanuvian Hungary, Austria, Switzerland, southern Germany, England.
Romance elements in English come from a handful Germanic Vikings who picked up French while being a Roman province had no lasting effect, it seems.

Romania was a province of Rome for only a little more than a generation, yet it has retained a romance language for more than one and one half millenia. Yes, I know that the country was controlled by a Roman garrison after it escaped Roman control, but in the intervening 1700+ years it has been overrun by Goths, Huns, Pechnegs (sp), Bulgarians, Slavs and probably others I don't know about.

Gaul was overrun by Germanic tribes, but the French language has few remnants of German. Maybe the crucial factor was that Charlemagne declared his empire to be Roman. He also pretty much created feudalism, which meant that his fellow tribesmen became his family and he became their patriarch. Might he have commanded his German troops to learn the local variant of Latin?

In the Anglo-Saxon lands no matter how many of the original Britons survived it's clear that they were relegated to slave status, so they didn't get a choice of what language was to be spoken. The contempt of the conquerers for the original people was so complete that they labeled the free survivors 'welsh' meaning foreigners. (Sorta reminds me of the lies generated by the Afrikaners about the African tribes of South Africa not being native to the area.)

[Ned]

On Romania, it seems that the Romans, mainly South of the Danube, absorbed newcomers and avoided getting wiped out by invaders by going into the hills. When the coast cleared, they would return and continue until the next invasion. Interesting story of survival of a piece of the Roman Empire.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

Gaul was overrun by Germanic tribes, but the French language has few remnants of German. Maybe the crucial factor was that Charlemagne declared his empire to be Roman. He also pretty much created feudalism, which meant that his fellow tribesmen became his family and he became their patriarch. Might he have commanded his German troops to learn the local variant of Latin?

In the Anglo-Saxon lands no matter how many of the original Britons survived it's clear that they were relegated to slave status, so they didn't get a choice of what language was to be spoken. The contempt of the conquerers for the original people was so complete that they labeled the free survivors 'welsh' meaning foreigners. (Sorta reminds me of the lies generated by the Afrikaners about the African tribes of South Africa not being native to the area.)

There was a distinction already at Charlemagne's time, and he even articulated that. He said, he himself speaks "diutisce" (the ethymological root of "Dutch" and "Deutsch"), while most inhabitants in the western parts spoke "walahisce" (which has the same ethymological root as the "Welsh" you mention. In Austria, Italians and Raetoromans are sometimes called "Welsche". Funny, isn't it). So, I guess that the small ruling elite kept speaking some Germanic dialect and only at a certain point adapted to the language of the population substrate

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

Gaul was overrun by Germanic tribes, but the French language has few remnants of German. Maybe the crucial factor was that Charlemagne declared his empire to be Roman. He also pretty much created feudalism, which meant that his fellow tribesmen became his family and he became their patriarch. Might he have commanded his German troops to learn the local variant of Latin?

Karl's capital was Aachen, which still speaks Germans, AFAIK. The heartland of the Salian Franks is today's Holland. They speak a varient of Old Frankish, not of Latin.

Karl did not declare himself to be Roman. He was crowned emperor in 800 by the pope much to his surprise. His right to the title was recognized by the Eastern Empire in 812.

What is interesting is that when the Western Empire was divided among Karl's three grandsons, Gaul, ruled by one of the three, somehow stayed out of the Western Empire. The Western Empire continued only in the East and Italy and became known as the Holy Roman Empire. (This illustrates an inherent conflict between Frankish laws of inheritance (where all brothers got a piece of their's father's realm) and the concept of one Emperor. But note, the Romans themselves were able to handle this only once, at least to some extent, when Constantine divided the Empire among his three sons. (The division was shortlived.) But, the next time an emperor divided the empire between his son (Theodosius: Honorius in the West and Arcadius in the East) , it stayed divided, permanently. Ditto Gaul splitting off in the 800's.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Romania was a province of Rome for only a little more than a generation, yet it has retained a romance language for more than one and one half millenia. Yes, I know that the country was controlled by a Roman garrison after it escaped Roman control, but in the intervening 1700+ years it has been overrun by Goths, Huns, Pechnegs (sp), Bulgarians, Slavs and probably others I don't know about.

Nah, Romanians are NOT remains of Romans from this area. They are immigrants from the southern bank of the Danube,.