Damn anti smoking fanatics! Bars can't serve food and allow smoking? WTF!

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither


None of those are banned in hotels with fireplaces.

A hotel room is not a public place of business, nye.

[MRT144]

i think part of the problem is that people assume a bar and restaurant isnt a public place of business.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
My liberty ends where another person's begins. I cannot shoot someone but I can choose to smoke even if the action harms myself.

But the problem is it harms other people. In fact, they don't benefit from the filter that the smokers do, either.

That's exactly the problem, and you just admitted to it. Smoking in a bar affects more than the smokers' liberty, it affects everyone around them. It's harming other people.

Again, is a bar a public place or a private establishment?

If it was a truely private establishment it wouldn't need a license. They're public places.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

It's actually a good point -- from what it looks like in this thread, it's the pro-smoking crowd driving the gas-guzzling pollution-spewing vehicles.

What do you drive, nye?

Uh-huh.

A mini van, btw.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MRT144
i think part of the problem is that people assume a bar and restaurant isnt a public place of business.

Smoking is banned here in private clubs.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Uh-huh.

A mini van, btw.

So another polluter.

I rest my case...

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Smoking is banned here in private clubs.

"Private clubs" with a public liquor license?
"Private clubs" with a public business license?

[MRT144]

is the license a formality of laws the public has chosen to establish? is this an example of regulation by the government on property rights?

i brought this up pages ago with liquor licensing and how it is contingent on the forgoing the exercise of some property rights.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Asher

So another polluter.

I rest my case...

thank god, that was the stupidest non sequitar ever

[laurentius]

Yeah with all these micro particles from chimneys, cars, aeroplanes, trucks and ships smoking contributes to only a part of the premature dearths we have these days from lung cancer, heart problems etc.

Smoking is going to be banned in every club, bar or restaurant here from 1.1.2007. I hate smoking, I normally cant stand the smell. I think its a very very primitive way of injecting ourselves with certain chemicals. Pills are always much more compact. Then again I recognise some of the more simple behavioral patters I take when for example drinking around friends. Every now and then some of them offers you a cigarette and I must say it feels ok to light it up and enjoy it. Why should that be illegal? Because after 40 years of continuous smoking it causes lung cancer? Oh. please theres like a million other things causing it too. Besides I go to a bar to enjoy myself, I drink if I feel like and smoke if I feel like. If the bartender wants to wear a mask I have no problems with it. But just try to imagine a jazz or a student club not filled with smoke. Its part of our way of life.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MRT144
yelling fire
consuming alcohol
deficating
urinating

but wait, there are regulations against these things, that the public has decided on

and ben, where do you draw the limit on liberty? do you?

Yelling fire is illegal in any sort of crowd. Legal activity, I said.

Consuming alcohol is perfectly legal, and can be done in licensed establishments.

Basic bodily functions are regulated by health departments and are allowed in any public business who care to make a rest room available for the public.

So why no smoking in any business?

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Yelling fire is illegal, in any sort of crowd. Legal activity, I said.

Yelling fire is not inherently illegal. What made it illegal is the context -- a public place. Like smoking is illegal in a context -- a public place.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

So another polluter.

I rest my case...

How do you know the fuel economy, or how much I drive it, or for what uses?

[MRT144]

but heres the rub nye, smoking is legal and can be regulated in the same way that any of the above are. and they are! no one is suggesting taking away the right to smoke, just regulating the areas, just like drinking, just like bodily functions, just like yelling something.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
How do you know the fuel economy, or how much I drive it, or for what uses?

A minivan doesn't have good fuel economy by definition.

How much you drive it doesn't matter.

And I don't care why you use it.