Damn anti smoking fanatics! Bars can't serve food and allow smoking? WTF!

[notyoueither]

People make work choices all the time.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by notyoueither
People make work choices all the time.

Sure, but not everyone is in a position to be able to quit their job. Not everyone can just find another job. And when an entire service industry is stuck with the same poor health conditions, it's even tougher to find a suitable job. Do you really think that all of those working in bars are doing so because they don't think there are better jobs out there?

I find the right to work in a safe environment trumps the right of a bar patron to not have to walk for a few seconds to light up. It's as simple as that.

[notyoueither]

Around here, people decide whether they want to clean oil field equipment (tanks) or not. Some of these workers die. Every year. On the job. Overcome by inhaling harmful chemicals.

The tanks need to be cleaned and serviced. Should we ban the activity because some people will surely die?

They will die. Someone will mishandle their equipment. They will go in. They will be overcome. They will die. This is as sure as the sun will come up, and it won't be because they had one cigarette, or they inhaled the smoke from 10,000,000 cigarettes. They will go down that hole at 8am and never come out alive.

There are very many other industries with very high job accident and fatality rates. Not all of them are required services like fire and police. Should we ban those industries because people will die doing the jobs?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Aeson


Sure, but not everyone is in a position to be able to quit their job. Not everyone can just find another job. And when an entire service industry is stuck with the same poor health conditions, it's even tougher to find a suitable job. Do you really think that all of those working in bars are doing so because they don't think there are better jobs out there?

Actually, yes.

A good service person here can make far more than they can working in an office as a drone or as manual labour.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Around here, people decide whether they want to clean oil field equipment (tanks) or not. Some of these workers die. Every year. On the job. Overcome by inhaling harmful chemicals.

The tanks need to be cleaned and serviced. Should we ban the activity because some people will surely die?

You're completely right.

Just as the chemicals are absolutely essential to the operation of that field, smoking is absolutely essential to the operation of waitresses, f'rinstance.

[notyoueither]

Why are businesses allowed to draw people to ski hills?

Mountains with snow on them are the sight of injury and death for the general public who are drawn there.

People should be protected from such predatory business practices. Christ, even workers get hurt and killed working there, and they would obviously prefer other jobs where the ground is flatter.

[Asher]

Do you not understand the difference between inherent dangers in work and useless ones? Smokers smoking inside the restaurant is not essential, it's a convenience for the addict only. Don't make the waitresses pay for it, too.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by notyoueither
There are very many other industries with very high job accident and fatality rates. Not all of them are required services like fire and police. Should we ban those industries because people will die doing the jobs?

unavoidable health risk->ban industry != avoidable health risk->eliminate health risk

[notyoueither]

What about a bar where all the employees smoke and all the patrons smoke?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
Do you not understand the difference between inherent dangers in work and useless ones? Smokers smoking inside the restaurant is not essential, it's a convenience for the addict only. Don't make the waitresses pay for it, too.

And if the waitresses smoke?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Aeson


Sure, but not everyone is in a position to be able to quit their job. Not everyone can just find another job.

If they hadn't started a job where smoking was allowed, they wouldn't have to quit.

They know the risks of second hand smoke, yet they still chose to work in a smoke filled environment.

We aren't talking about allowing people to suddenly smoke in bars, we are talking about suddenly not letting people smoke in bars.

ACK!

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
And if the waitresses smoke?

Also, what if they were murderers and also wore pantyhose?

It doesn't matter.

[Flip McWho]

Why are pubs and bars considered private property?

What's the difference between bars and a hairdressers, clothes shop or cafe except what service/product they provide to the public?

Is it alright to ban smoking in them?


The gay thing is retarded beyond anything. Gays are inherently gay, just like blacks are inherently black, hell Jews (as a religion, not Jew as in a family name) aren't even inherently Jewish. Smoking is a choice you exercise, it is not comparable to being Gay

Regards the majority thing. For many years, those that really didn't want to be around smoke didn't go out to bars and clubs. However over the years the number of those who don't wanna be around smoke in a bar of club has grown to the point where they think why should we not go out and enjoy ourselves in a bar or club (because the free market doesn't always fix everything, ever heard of market failures?) simply because somebody must feed their addiction (and this is why ciggarettes actually give you a noticeable effect, it soothes your chemical cravings) which does harm other people.

That's why BK's argument falls down. Smoking does harm other people in a confined public place.



But the main argument against the ban is the whole bars and clubs being private property.

Why is it?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why are businesses allowed to draw people to ski hills?

Mountains with snow on them are the sight of injury and death for the general public who are drawn there.

People have the right to go ski to their deaths (and/or amusement) if they wish. Just as people have the right to go smoke to their deaths (and/or amusement) if they wish.

People should be protected from such predatory business practices. Christ, even workers get hurt and killed working there, and they would obviously prefer other jobs where the ground is flatter.

Your analogy needs some sort of extraneous device that some of the skiers bring to the slopes, which has no practical use in regards to skiing or maintenance, which causes these health concerns.

[Asher]

We aren't talking about allowing people to suddenly smoke in bars, we are talking about suddenly not letting people smoke in bars.

A valid point, to be sure. This makes all the difference in making laws -- does this already occur? If so, let's ignore it.