BABIES born alive at less than 22 weeks gestation should be treated as if they ......

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Losing a baby is hard i can say from experience but one can overcome that grief if the said child didnt have a chance. I was talking with a friend about this and the most insulting thing they said to me was well all you can do is try ur best! I had to step back and admit that was the biggest load of horse**** i have ever heard. Try my best? Like what else would we be doing? Thing is we are medical workers not miracle workers and to assume that we wouldnt be doing our job to the utmost of our abilities is kind of insulting. We can only work with what we are given and if things dont work out its not cause of our lack of trying.

[Whaleboy]

If an infant is born after 8/9 months gestation, is it mandatory to issue a birth certificate then?

Also, what status does the birth certificate confer? Would I be right in saying that it's the point at which one is recognised by the state as an individual with an identity?

After I have an answer to that question, the debate then falls back to the old abortion problem.... at what point is a human a "lifeform", a "person", and a "being". I don't think this issue is entirely relevant to the abortion issue however because surely the "identity" problem is the line between "person" and "being". The abortion problem relates to the lifeform/person distinction.

On the other hand:

Wouldn't it be wiser to give the parents the choice as to whether or not the child should be given a birth certificate?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Whale boy in the states any child born is issued a birth certificate. even if it dies moments later. you have to have a birth to have a death certificate. thats not the point i dont think. i think the point is wheter or not this infant is viable at 22 weeks. and to me its not considered an abortion if the child was born alive and then allowed to die, its called a death .

[Alexander's Horse]

maybe they could issue little certificates saying not-quite-human

[SlowwHand]

AH, you could have gone all day without saying something like that.

[Alexander's Horse]

I merely trying to bring out the absurdity of it, not offend, if my child died like that I'd want a death certificate

[SlowwHand]

Me too.

[Whaleboy]

maybe they could issue little certificates saying not-quite-human

A question for the medics: At what stage do premature infants, as a general rule of thumb, become viable? Say 26, 28, 30 weeks?

By this I mean if you knew nothing of the infant and its parents other than the length of gestation, at what point would you expect it to survive (given medical care appropriate to a premature baby) and live a normal life?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Guynemer
"Spontaneous abortion" is the usual term.

It appears that obstetricians in the UK are trying to extend the term "spontaneous abortion" to babies born with vital signs before age 22 weeks. My feeling is that if the baby can be held in the parent's arms it should be treated as any human being. If British obstetricians are unable to recognize the parent's feelings in this matter then the decision on this issue should not be left in their hands.
I find it odd that on the other hand the RCOG is advocating the lowering of the upper age limit for social abortion to 22 weeks. It's almost as if the recommendation to not issue birth certificates to babies born earlier were a sort of "housekeeping" matter, a tidying up. Maybe they want to make sure there is no further deliberation on the matter, no possibility of moving the limit to a younger fetal age.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Whaleboy




A question for the medics: At what stage do premature infants, as a general rule of thumb, become viable? Say 26, 28, 30 weeks?

By this I mean if you knew nothing of the infant and its parents other than the length of gestation, at what point would you expect it to survive (given medical care appropriate to a premature baby) and live a normal life?

i would think with the experience we all have added to the fact that all parents tell us what we are supposed to do! It has been my experience that infants born under a certain age are more likely to pass on then others. Most folks have to realize we arent the ones saying this infant isnt worth it, but have the experience that 95 % of the time they dont survive. and when told by the parents they want every means to sustain life we have to do as they say, The doctors are no different then us nurses other then the fact that they are issuing orders to us to do what we have to do.

[Krill]

Go look up Charlotte Wyatt.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
A question for the medics: At what stage do premature infants, as a general rule of thumb, become viable? Say 26, 28, 30 weeks?

By this I mean if you knew nothing of the infant and its parents other than the length of gestation, at what point would you expect it to survive (given medical care appropriate to a premature baby) and live a normal life?

Dating pregnancies isn't an exact science; that said, we go after every 24 week infant, after talking with the parents about all the risks I detailed above. Under 24 weeks is a more case-by-case basis, usually based on the child's size. Under 450-500 grams, there isn't much point.

One big caveat being this: a few years ago, 24 weekers were regarded as hopeless as 22 weekers are today. As our technologies improve, we may be able to save younger premies.

[Harovan]

In todays news (sorry, no English link) I read, that a 21 weeks 6 days child, Amillia Taylor (born Oct 24th), survived in Miami and was today released home to her mother. At birth her weight was only 280 grams.

[Gibsie]

The article says "not routinely", so that means where the baby survives beyond a day or however long then its birth is registered. I don't think it should be legislated against, but if hospitals don't want to shove paperwork into grieving parents' hands then I don't really see the problem with that either.

[Harovan]

Also mentioned in the article, according to the University of Iowa there was no survivor with less than 23 weeks gestation known so far. Yes, for now it's a record, but today's records are tomorrow's normalities. Well in that case not quite, but chances will probably increase significantly.