Shed a tear for the Europeans

[Nubclear]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6077344.stm

EU shocked as Putin comes out fighting
By William Horsley
BBC News Europe analyst

Jacques Chirac and Angela Merkel
EU leaders were reportedly taken aback by Mr Putin's rebuff
Insiders' reports from EU leaders' dinner with Russian President Vladimir Putin last Friday suggest Europe's diplomats have begun the week suffering from diplomatic indigestion.

All 25 European Union leaders met Mr Putin in Finland.

Accounts of the meeting from some of those present there speak of unusually blunt exchanges between the two sides, in which Mr Putin said he would not listen to lectures about human rights, and rejected EU demands over its vitally important oil and gas business.

Like some blazing row between world celebrities in a private club, word of the verbal fisticuffs is coming out in dribs and drabs and is still spreading.

The Europeans went in saying bravely that that they would tackle Mr Putin over human rights issues, like the recent murder of a political journalist, and calling on him to loosen the state monopolies in oil and gas development if he wanted a relationship of trust.

That stance was the stronger for being shared by Russia's closest economic partner, Angela Merkel, the German chancellor.

Pleasantry knocked aside

But Mr Putin's response was sharp. He told the Europeans Russia would set its own terms on energy supplies, and not sign the Energy Charter Treaty, as they asked.

Challenged about corruption and failings in the rule of law in Russia, he asked why officials had been sent to jail in Spain, and annoyed some in Italy with his quip that "mafia is not a Russian word".

Challenged over the economic embargo on Georgia, he accused that tiny state of planning to settle its disputes with Russia with bloodshed.

Some of the Europeans were shocked.

So the meeting in Lahti, Finland, had few concrete results.

But the mask of pleasantry has been knocked off.

At the next EU-Russia summit next month it may not be possible to put the really tough issues aside with jokes or jibes.

So let me get this straight: Europe seriously expected that Russia would just bend over and take it even after Europe's generally belligerent policy toward Russia?

Russia is finally starting to proclaim its independence as a sovereign state. The fact is that Europe is no friend to the Russians, and this so-called "Energy Charter" is just another attempt by Europe to live by the fiction that Russia is weak and can be dominated as to make it a vassal of western interests.

Putin
Whiny Europeans

[LordShiva]

Clearly, the real culprits are such nefarious organisations such as Amnesty International, which want to make Russia a vassal state

[Nubclear]

:arr:

[Drake Tungsten]

Good for Putin. Hopefully his belligerant attitude will drive home the fact that the Euros are helpless in dealings with any real power without the assistance of their American friends. May they come running back into our arms so that we can undermine Putin's thuggish regime together!

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Good for Putin. Hopefully his belligerant attitude will drive home the fact that the Euros are helpless in dealings with any real power without the assistance of their American friends. May they come running back into our arms so that we can undermine Putin's thuggish regime together!

If that is the plan of the US, then it is quite unfortunate that the US has made so many other awful foreign policy decisions as to require the continued friendship of Russia in order to resolve them. Iran immediately comes to mind

But don't worry....if the US wants to be antagonistic toward Russia, that will only push Russia into China's orbit.

[SlowwHand]

Let Russia stand alone. Be like the USSR of old, only whittled down some. Second-rate everything.

[Drake Tungsten]

But don't worry....if the US wants to be antagonistic toward Russia, that will only push Russia into China's orbit.

Feel free to bow down to the Chicoms if you want; historically they've been very gracious to their tributaries. If you're lucky, they may even let you keep some of the Russian Far East!

[Barnabas]

What human rights does russia suposedly violate?

I think there is freedom of religion, and freedom of speach isnt that important

[Nubclear]

:arr:

[Barnabas]

Importantly in Russia, there has also begun to appear neutral or favourable state media coverage of Catholic activity, including prominent news footage of President Vladimir Putin and his entourage visiting the Vatican in late 2003 (during which Minister for Trade and Economic Development German Gref was seen to kiss the Pope's hand), the Catholic Church's return of the Kazan Icon of the Mother of God from the Catholic to the Russian Orthodox Church in the Kremlin, and a recent organ recital in Moscow's Catholic Cathedral. Significantly, unlike the 2002 Catholic dioceses affair, there has been no reaction to date from either the Moscow Patriarchate or the Russian state to the Vatican's January 2005 announcement that Bishop Iosif Werth of the Novosibirsk-based Transfiguration diocese is to be appointed ordinary of Eastern-rite Catholic communities in Russia, thus regularising their position. Representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate have recently stepped up their criticism of the existence of these communities, which the Catholic Church had previously been reluctant to acknowledge precisely for fear of upsetting Catholic-Orthodox relations.

Foreign Catholic clergy in far-removed parts of Russia have told Forum 18 of notable improvements in their visa regime from the middle of 2004 onwards. Far Eastern restrictions remain tight, however, with foreign Catholic priests in the Pacific Primorye region unable to invite others to assist them, for instance. None of the seven foreign Catholic clergy barred from entering Russia by the state authorities from 2001-2  five of which cases were evidently triggered by the dioceses scandal  has since been allowed to return.

The Catholic Church continues to have mixed success in obtaining its historical church property. The Karelian authorities recently joined those in regions such as Kursk, Tatarstan and Tyumen in returning the historical Catholic church in the regional centre. In other regional capitals, such as Barnaul (Altai region), Irkutsk, Khabarovsk, Smolensk, Vologda and Yaroslavl, Catholic parishes have failed to regain historical Catholic churches, but are able to meet elsewhere. In Belgorod and Blagoveshchensk, historical Catholic church buildings have been turned into Orthodox churches despite appeals by local Catholics.

Not that great, but tolerable

[Drake Tungsten]

I personally would prefer it if Russia and the West were cooperative with each other, but if the West wants to keep playing this game of righteous indignation over the fact that Russia is an independent country....Russia has to look elsewhere.

You can believe in the potential for a Sino-Russian partnership if you want to. I personally think it would be smarter for Russia to make the small concessions needed to stay on relatively friendly terms with the West (ie. not killing journalists, intimidating former Soviet republics, etc.) than to hitch themselves to a rising power with a history of disagreement with Russia and a number of outstanding grievances...

[SlowwHand]

If you want to cooperate, there are methods for you to go there. Go on, get out. Scoot.

[Nubclear]

:arr:

[Barnabas]

Face it, Russia´s status has gone back to XVIII XIX century level, powerful but both France and England are more wealthy and powerful

[Drake Tungsten]

America's not going to turn on you because of some oil disagreement with the EU. If you keep murdering innocents and threatening countries like Georgia, on the other hand...