Becoming a French bureaucrat

[Lord Avalon]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Bureaucracy

"Oui, ministre."

Or is that "Oui, premier ministre"?

It's been so long since I've seen those. Good stuff.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Nah, I'd rather surf YouTube

Speaking of which... what is the Apolyton login and password again?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Lord Avalon

"Oui, ministre."

Or is that "Oui, premier ministre"?

It's been so long since I've seen those. Good stuff.

I think it's 'Yes Minister' judging by Hacker's age.

Bureaucraspeak at its finest.

btw, Vet - how did you get to know it?

[LordShiva]

Everyone knows it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Cort Haus

fall

Why can't you say autumn?

Oh, "fall" isn't accepted in actual English? I gotta remember it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
An interesting question about the “specific qualities” is : are they required by the common weal or are they only needed as a selective tool?

Precisely. That's the question.

I have nothing against an administrator knowing something about his prospective job. Public law is useful to most administrators (because the job is very procedural, and because quite a few end up in a judiciary department). Economics is useful to most of those who'll have to implement policies. Languages are essential to pretty much every administrator, because the average administrator will encounter an increasing amount of foreign partners and documentation as time passes.

As for "culture générale", I'd think it would be a welcome (though fairly minor) test if it tested a candidate's intellectual curiosity, and his ability to put news or issues into a broader perspective. However, the way it is today, it is a major test (more important than languages FFS), and the importance of formal culture and language is essential.

I actually think it goes against the common good. In this day and age, there are plenty of French people who have trouble understanding formal speech. Popular culture doesn't use it at all (but it probably never did), but the TV also doesn't use it anymore. Even the news now use a looser language than what's expected of prospective civil servants (i.e those who'll still be civil servants years from now on, when this trend will have increased dramatically).
In order to serve the public, I think it would be much better to do it in the public's language, instead of focusing on a language that only a part of the population easily understands, and masters without overwhelming difficulty.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I want to work for Commie cities, to work at implementing the policies decided by the Commie city council.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drogue
Also, those of us lucky enough to have had successful internships get to bypass the whole thing

You can become a civil servant without an exam, just through actual experience? Wow.


Well, we have it too, but it still requires the official endorsement (approved by an exam, though not nearly as selective). This can be done only for people who have more than years of experience of work outside public service.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
In order to serve the public, I think it would be much better to do it in the public's language, instead of focusing on a language that only a part of the population easily understands, and masters without overwhelming difficulty.

Hasn't that always been true? That type of language has always existed to distinguish the elites from the less privileged classes.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Hasn't that always been true? That type of language has always existed to distinguish the elites from the less privileged classes.

Indeed.

And I'm a commie

[Kuciwalker]

OK. With the "in this day and age" it sounded like you thought the test used to be appropriate.

[Kassiopeia]

I'm interested in becoming a Finnish or European bureaucrat, so this was an interesting read. Although I shouldn't really say "interested", it's just something I'll probably end up in sooner or later unless I can find anything better (maybe a minor in econ would help).

Of course, becoming a bureaucrat in Finland is far, far easier, as far as I know all you really need is a degree, some experience and a command of Swedish unless you're trying to get into some prestigious place (usually on the national level) like the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. My biggest concern is my inability to socialize - I'd probably fail miserably in the French bureaucrat exams because of that

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
OK. With the "in this day and age" it sounded like you thought the test used to be appropriate.

Well, there was a time where that language was overwhelming. It was the school's language, and the TV's too. However, as the French reactionaries put it, "it has all gone downhill since May 68". Before May 68, the inevitable modernization fo French society (with post-modernism, relativism and individualism) was not occuring because of the Republic's moralistic willingness at spreading its values.
With the student riots, this modernization took place, and the Republic has progressively stopped dictating plenty of things (it was a decades-long process, but it started rather spectacularly).

As a result, school has new pedagogic methods where the children are encouraged to think by themselves, instead of learning a rigorous form of French. As a result, TV isn't a state-monopoly where bureaucrats get half of the total air time, unlike what it used to be.

And as a result, we have plenty of people now who haven't been dictated what to think, what to speak, and what to read. OTOH, it is still demanded of prospect bureaucrats to hold on the classical bureaucratic culture, which is overwhelmingly found among the bureaucrats themselves, the teachers, and other intellectual jobs (lawyers etc.) today.

It is no suprise that the unequalities wrt social origin have increased in the Ecoles Bull****iennes compared to the 50ies.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Of course, becoming a bureaucrat in Finland is far, far easier, as far as I know all you really need is a degree, some experience and a command of Swedish unless you're trying to get into some prestigious place (usually on the national level) like the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. My biggest concern is my inability to socialize - I'd probably fail miserably in the French bureaucrat exams because of that

Socialization is something one can learn, and if it fails, it's something one can fake

[Jon Miller]

Brazil!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/

JM