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**Jaguar** · October 30, 2006, 00:34

You're increasing your lead because my skaters are slacking.

They're like "lol let's not show up LOL."

**notyoueither** · October 30, 2006, 00:34

Originally posted by Asher
It was a horribly lopsided argument anyway, it's in your best interest to cease discussion on the rules because you can't seriously argue in favour of it (obviously).

I suppose that is why everyone agrees with you. It's unanimous, congratulations, or not...

**Asher** · October 30, 2006, 00:37

I'm more than willing to discus the rules, the exploitation of them, and its impact on the game but nye has shown he is not interested in such a discussion. He wants us to stop talking about it so he can continue doing it and no one else does. If everyone starts doing it, it's not an effective tactic.

The tactic works for two reasons:
1) Very few people decide to do it
2) Very few people can do it

I have yet to see anyone pose a solid reason in favour of such a tactic, given how it puts people without as much time to commit to the league at a competitive disadvantage.

Unless someone can give a convincing one, I move that we ban behaviour that results in daily player rotations solely for the purpose of unnecessarily adding more skater/goalie games. In cases such as when you're not going to meet the required 3 games, it makes sense and should be permitted.

But when you've already got more skater games than your opponent, and you're losing very slightly, it should not be permitted for you to drop and add players just for one night to try to win via playing even more skater games. In one word, it's lame.

So, give us a solid argument in favour of it, or we should ban it for the sake of a level playing field and keeping in the spirit of building a fantasy team, not degenerating this pool into a competition of who can get the most skater/goalie games in on a given week. It's not fun, it's not interesting, and it's not what the game's about.

**joncha** · October 30, 2006, 00:43

How about you stop trying to poison the league and just shut the **** up already?

**notyoueither** · October 30, 2006, 00:43

Never mind.

**Asher** · October 30, 2006, 00:47

Originally posted by joncha
How about you stop trying to poison the league and just shut the **** up already?

I'm discussing the rules to prevent the league from getting poisoned into a pissing contest of who can manage to work the schedules to get the most skater games each week.

I realize that both you and nye don't like me, so if you've got nothing to say conducive to the discussion, kindly keep it to yourself. Maybe you and nye could have your discussions on how attempts to stop exploitations is poisoning the game via PM, because it's not relevant to this thread.

No one in this league is giving us a convincing argument why this strategy should be legal. In fact, the people arguing in favour of it are being aggressive and personal when its being questioned. It ought to be banned.

Notice how no one can rationalize the strategy in the context of fairness? It's because it's a BS strategy, and people in this league need to grow a pair and do something about it.

(Why is it that last season when you and nye constantly heckled, attacked, and verbally assaulted me about a trade I made it's okay, but when I question exploits of the system I'm poisoning the league? Get real, you guys are too transparent.)

**joncha** · October 30, 2006, 00:50

FFS, we had the discussion already. Get over it and shut up.

**Asher** · October 30, 2006, 00:53

Originally posted by joncha
FFS, we had the discussion already. Get over it and shut up.

No we didn't. A discussion was made against it, then personal attacks were made against me. Several people have expressed that they agree with me.

This discussion has not ended, and it certainly won't end by people saying things like "SHUT THE **** UP" because they don't like how it's turning out.

Stop telling people to shut up if you disagree with them. I am trying very hard to have a rational discussion on this, but you and nye are insisting on acting like articulate 5 year olds and it's driving me nuts.

Kontiki should outlaw this behaviour by default, on the basis of no one building a credible defense in favour of it and people speaking out against it.

Let's have a civil discussion on this. If you don't want to have a civil discussion, I'll refer you to Ming. All you're doing right now is trying to provoke me, and you, I, and Ming all know it. Please stick to the real discussion here. If you've nothing more to add, then say nothing.

**notyoueither** · October 30, 2006, 00:55

And Guy?

Is he the fifth problem with this league?

**joncha** · October 30, 2006, 00:57

Originally posted by Asher

No we didn't. A discussion was made against it, then personal attacks were made against me. Several people have expressed that they agree with me.

This discussion has not ended, and it certainly won't end by people saying things like "SHUT THE **** UP" because they don't like how it's turning out.

Stop telling people to shut up if you disagree with them. I am trying very hard to have a rational discussion on this, but you and nye are insisting on acting like articulate 5 year olds and it's driving me nuts.

Kontiki should outlaw this behaviour by default, on the basis of no one building a credible defense in favour of it and people speaking out against it.

Let's have a civil discussion on this. If you don't want to have a civil discussion, I'll refer you to Ming. All you're doing right now is trying to provoke me, and you, I, and Ming all know it. Please stick to the real discussion here. If you've nothing more to add, then say nothing.

Then quit the league.

The default position is the rules as they are. You have failed to convince enough people that we need to change them. Ming has stepped in repeatedly to tell you to stop with your yapping, but you keep right on going. For the sake of the league just shut up. Please.

**Asher** · October 30, 2006, 00:57

Originally posted by notyoueither
And Guy?

Guy said he didn't care and voted against it for unacceptable reasons (not on the grounds of the issue, but on his personal bias). He admitted as such.

Is he the fifth problem with this league?

(Note: This is a very clear attempt to provoke me, as it's referencing last year's trolls nye made repeatedly against me)

**Asher** · October 30, 2006, 00:59

Originally posted by joncha

Then quit the league.

The default position is the rules as they are. You have failed to convince enough people that we need to change them. Ming has stepped in repeatedly to tell you to stop with your yapping, but you keep right on going. For the sake of the league just shut up. Please.

Why should I quit the league because nye is again exploiting the systems to try to scrounge up wins?

From what I see, more people have spoken against this tactic than in favour of it. The decision is up to the commish, and he was very clearly still discussing the situation.

This discussion isn't over just because you hope it is.

I'm calling out nye on his behaviour that is not in the spirit of the league. There are no rules in favour or against this behaviour, but the spirit of the league is what matters here. The season is still young, and I don't think you can seriously make the case that the point of fantasy leagues like this is to constantly rotate players to get the most skater/goalie games in per week...

What's occuring is an exploit of the system, and something should be done about it. It is not an acceptable argument that the "season already started" and there were no rules against it. nye already squeaked out some wins because of the tactic, if anything we need to act faster, not shrug our shoulders and act like we can't do anything.

If you really don't care joncha, why do you post so much about it? And why are all of your posts personally directed right at me with the clear intentions of provoking me? It's curious.

**Sparrowhawk** · October 30, 2006, 01:02

Actually deleting the threads from Apolyton might have the benefit of limiting these conversations which might help the league stand a chance.

I don't think anyone quitting will help the league.

If we are having these problems in October, where will we be in January?

/me

**joncha** · October 30, 2006, 01:02

Because that's what you do. You whine and rant in the thread and people laugh at you. Then you get pissy and quit the league.

With Ming involved it's past the point of laugh at Asher's hysterics time. So suck it up, resist the urge to get in the last post, and let's get on with the league.

**Jaguar** · October 30, 2006, 01:04

I vote to leave the rules as is.

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