January 2007: Bulgaria and Romania in EU

[Sir Og]

Do you consider the Haliburton deals in the US to be related to corruption. IMO this is just as much corruption as a doctor asking for money to put some patient on top of a list.

I think that it is possible to have higher perception of corruption when the corruption is at lower levels and involves some everyday activities like getting stopped by cops for speeding, the doctor example etc.
This however is incomparable in scale to things like government orders going to companies close to the ruling party.

[Dr. A. Cula]

Look out EU, here we come!

I only know of Bulgaria what I read in the newspapers, and most of it is better than what I see around me.

I am quite sure, though, that Europe is never going to be the same again.

[VetLegion]

Sir Og, I agree that corruption exists even in least corrupt countries. On the other hand, I think that corruption at the highest level does less harm than corruption on the lower levels. Bribing cops, which happens here, undermines the society a lot more than Bechtel getting a deal without tender, as also happened here recently, but was stopped.

Anyway, I'm noticing positive trends and changes in my country all the time, so I'm pretty optimistic about the future

My estimate is that Croatia will in time reach and surpass Italian level of development, but probably won't reach Sweden or Netherlands in the near future.

[Heresson]

I'm pretty sure Croatia looks better when it comes to economy and general look than Romania and Bulgaria, true. Still, I'm happy. It means less money for Poland, but it is a step in good direction, direction of united Europe.

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


It will have to fill the Bosphorus first

There are more Turks on the west side of the Bosphorus than there are people in Bulgaria...

[Harovan]

On a related note, speaking of bribery and corruption, what's going on in Poland? I hear pretty ugly stories about the PiS regime...

[Heresson]

It's so bad I don't want to speak about it. But, since Samoobrona party left the coalition, PiS reign is hopefully coming to an end.
Whatever SLD members were doing on their own, with SLD condemning it... PiS was doing far worse openly, as a part of building "IV Republic".
The current scandal is that, after Samoobrona, led by a criminal peasant and made at some part of criminals, PiS hungered for its parliamentarist.
One of them was Renata Beger, a very colourful person. A village women in her middle age, she got fameous for saying that she loves sex as horse loves oat and the such. She was proposed a session in Playboy and would do it, was she not forbidden by leader of her party...
She got even more fameous when it was discovered that she forged the lists of support that allowed her to participate in elections.

Anyway, PiS wanted Samoobrona parliamentarists to support them. But there's a problem. Its leader, mr Lepper, to make sure such things will not happen, not only banned voluntary leaving of parliamentar club of Samoobrona, which was accepted by marshall of parliament from PiS, but also, before elections, Samoobrona's candidates had to sign papers in which they agreed to pay enormous ammounts of money for using the sign of Samoobrona in elections. Now Lepper used these papers for the first time, after PiS questioned their legality for the first time.
Also, PiS leaders were eagerly gathering Samoobrona's parliamentarists, including miss Beger. She, with help of journalists, recorded negotiatons betwen her and two ministers, including Samoobrona's ex-second person, banned by Lepper for being too popular, and now a politician of PiS, whose person was one of the reasons for Samoobrona's and PiS' divorce, and the "third twin", A. Lipinski.
They offered her a high office saying that it's no problem and they have plenty of offices vacant, and that they'll help her with Lepper's papers, and they didn't deny they could help her with her legal matters.
PiS, as usual, claims that:
a) it is nothing unusual
b) it is Beger who should be ashamed, for recording it
c) that they didn't promess her anything
d) that secret services (notabene under PiS control) were involved, and specialist secret services equipement was used (that is, a video tape)
e) it is another attack of the mysterious "pact" that PiS fights against, and is made by forces hostile towards new, just, Poland
etc

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Heresson
It's so bad I don't want to speak about it.

Thanks that you did nonetheless. It's always good to hear the opinion of a third person, i.e. not a politician or media representant.

[Sir Og]

My portfolio rose by 5 percent after the news that Bulgaria is joining the EU

If they announce that Bulgaria is joining the EU every day I can be a millionare in a few years

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
See I really dislike that covert form of racism that's expressed in the post of thesilentone.

Those damn pesky foreigners taking over our countries, competing us rightful people outta jobs.

I work with an Indian fellow who was born in India, became a citizen of the UK, then 20 years later moved to the US to advance his career. He's a great guy but when I was talking to him yesterday about the UK he was complaining that his old neighborhood in London (where he used to own a house) had gone down hill due to new imigrants (mostly east Africans he said) who "just didn't try to keep their houses as nice".

I just thought it was funny to hear an immigrant (about one who had lived in the UK for 20 years) complaining about how immigration was making things worse.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Heresson
I think Britain is much better off with immigrants from central and eastern EUrope, who will have no problem merging with society and after a generation or two not by appearance, not by religion, not by customs You'll be able to recognise that they are not original British, perhaps only by surname,
than with immigrants from Pakistan or Somalia.

This is actually very true. With in a generation or two they'll just be another white guy from a European Christian background. That's basically what happens in countries like the US, Canada, and Australia.

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Oerdin


This is actually very true. With in a generation or two they'll just be another white guy from a European Christian background. That's basically what happens in countries like the US, Canada, and Australia.

Believe me there's a big difference between how immigrants who visibly stand out and those that don't in how they get treated. Except for a Pakistani or two I'm the only person in the neighborhood I live in (that I've seen) who is visibly non-Korean but there are a ****load of Chinese. I get cut a lot more slack in a lot of ways and people are much more helpful to me.

However its a bit silly to base an entire immigration policy around excluding people who stick out like sore thumbs since all that does in reinforce a set of rather silly attitudes. Best to let people in according to training or something rational.

It would be damn good if people were used to seeing people with a different skin color on a daily basis, I would like a few less random people yelling out "hi" or "how are you" whenever I walk past...

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
racism

because clearly, immigrants are a race

[Fake Boris]

Yes, I was talking about immigrants, and not about some people's attitude.

[Dinner]

Boshko, I wouldn't make race & culture the only factors and in fact I would put education and having skills needed by the economy at the top of the list. The question is when all things are otherwise equal who do you choose?

We'll never have enough highly trained professionals so we'd take all of those we can get as long as they don't have a criminal record or reasons to suspect they want to do something illegal. But low skilled or even skilled persons with low demand professions? It's only logical to bias your work force towards those people who could intigrate into society as quickly and easily as possible.

Why bring in people who are likely to have difficulty integrating when there are already EU members filled with willing workers who are chomping at the bit to get into western Europe? It just makes sense to take from culturally similiar countries which already have political and historic ties before letting in people from diametricly different cultural background. You just avoid a lot of problems by doing that.