English (United States)

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Of course, as has already been pointed out, this discussion of the status of English in India (something quite laughable since English is already an official language of India) is quite irrelevant, considering English is not the official/national language of the United States at all, disqualifying it from the worldwide vote of "Best English Dialect".

Hence, British English still wins.

PWND

I wonder if there is an actual law making English the official language of the United Kingdom?

That English has been the language of the United Stated since its inception is beyond debate. The US government was formed at a time when the need to make such legislation was not necessary. The US Constitution does mandate the continued use of "common law" where said common law does not conflict with Constitutional law. Since the language of this common law was English then it is obvious that English is the official language of the United States.

OTOH maybe we should all get used to calling the language "American".

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Article 343: "The official language of the Union shall be Hindi in the Devangari script."

- enough said. It's right there in black and white.

"Notwithstandinganything in this article the Parliament may provide for the use after the said period of fifeteen of -
(a) the English language, or....................."

The English language may be used by the government if duly legislated, but it is still not the official language.

Originally posted by LordShiva
As to whether I've read my own country's constitution, the answer is that I have. I also read the bit where it says that the central government is allowed to pass legislation on matters such as these, which it has done in the Official Languages Act, the Official Languages Resolution, the Official Languages Rules, the Official Languages Orders, and various Presidential orders made on behalf of the elected representatives of the people.

Order of the President, 27 April 1960, section 1 part (c):

English should be the principal official language and Hindi the subsidiary Official Language till 1965. After 1965, when Hindi becomes the principal official language of the Union, English should continue as the subsidiary official language.

Official Languages Act, 1963 (Amended 1967), section 3:

3. Continuation of english Language for official purposes of the Union and for use in Parliament-

(1) Nothwithstanding the expiration of the period of fifteen years from the commencement of the Constitution, the English language may, as from the appointed day, continue to be used in addition to Hindi,

(a) for all the official purposes of the Union for which it was being used immediately before that day; and

(b) for the transaction of business in Parliament:

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


I wonder if there is an actual law making English the official language of the United Kingdom?

That English has been the language of the United Stated since its inception is beyond debate. The US government was formed at a time when the need to make such legislation was not necessary. The US Constitution does mandate the continued use of "common law" where said common law does not conflict with Constitutional law. Since the language of this common law was English then it is obvious that English is the official language of the United States.

OTOH maybe we should all get used to calling the language "American".

I don't htink there is an all encompassing law regarding e the english language, as is the way over here, laws in specifice areas over the years will have mentioned that certain things should be english ( and in some circumstances Welsh or even French). Knowing our history there is probably a law saying everything should be in froggy.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
OTOH maybe we should all get used to calling the language "American".

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
OTOH maybe we should all get used to calling the language "American".

Yeah, you guys do that... the rest of us will continue speaking English.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


I wonder if there is an actual law making English the official language of the United Kingdom?

That English has been the language of the United Stated since its inception is beyond debate. The US government was formed at a time when the need to make such legislation was not necessary. The US Constitution does mandate the continued use of "common law" where said common law does not conflict with Constitutional law. Since the language of this common law was English then it is obvious that English is the official language of the United States.

OTOH maybe we should all get used to calling the language "American".

That defence is incredibly poor, considering that "common law" does nothing to address the officiality of the English language or not - it merely refers to legal precedents, etc (aka our common law).
IF English is considered to be "official" in the US, then it is most definitely official in India (as the bar for "officiality" need not include actual official recognition) and hence India votes, the US loses.

Otherwise, the United States is not included in the international vote and hence loses.

Either way, the US loses the vote and British English is crowned official.

Hooray!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


I wonder if there is an actual law making English the official language of the United Kingdom?

That English has been the language of the United Stated since its inception is beyond debate. The US government was formed at a time when the need to make such legislation was not necessary. The US Constitution does mandate the continued use of "common law" where said common law does not conflict with Constitutional law. Since the language of this common law was English then it is obvious that English is the official language of the United States.

OTOH maybe we should all get used to calling the language "American".

It was H L Mencken who first decided to call it "The American Language" OTOH decades of cultural and human exchange have probably brought American and British closer together than in the 1920s, so thats probably why calling our language "American" never really took off.

Re Common Law - isnt a certain amount of that in something called "Law French"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_French

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by LordShiva






Order of the President, 27 April 1960, section 1 part (c):




Official Languages Act, 1963 (Amended 1967), section 3:

It's pretty clear that English is to be used "in addition to" Hindi. That makes Hindi the official language and English a language of convenience.

If I were to walk down the streets of the average Indian city and to casually listen to conversations amongst Indian citizens on the street what percentage of those conversations would be in English as opposed to the original schedule VIII list of the 22 official languiages?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


That defence is incredibly poor, considering that "common law" does nothing to address the officiality of the English language or not - it merely refers to legal precedents, etc (aka our common law).
IF English is considered to be "official" in the US, then it is most definitely official in India (as the bar for "officiality" need not include actual official recognition) and hence India votes, the US loses.

Otherwise, the United States is not included in the international vote and hence loses.

Either way, the US loses the vote and British English is crowned official.

Hooray!

Then again judging by the responses of our English participants there is no reason to believe that English is the official language of England either!

[Drake Tungsten]

The English and it seems also the Canadians are intelligent enough to be able to handle the original spellings.

"-ize" is the original spelling, not "-ise" you ignorant ****.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
It's pretty clear that English is to be used "in addition to" Hindi. That makes Hindi the official language and English a language of convenience.

No, it makes English a secondary official language

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
If I were to walk down the streets of the average Indian city and to casually listen to conversations amongst Indian citizens on the street what percentage of those conversations would be in English as opposed to the original schedule VIII list of the 22 official languiages?

For a given Indian city, a good number, but not a majority. But summing over all Indian cities, the number of English speakers exceeds those of very many of the regional languages of smaller regions.

And actually, road signs are usually in English and the local language, and billboards, shop signs, posters, license plates, etc., are almost entirely in English, at least in the cities.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove



OTOH maybe we should all get used to calling the language "American".

Not really that bad an idea.

[Provost Harrison]

Yes it is. Once you create your own language rather than steal ours, them you can call it what you like

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Since Hindi is the de jure language of India then Hindi is the primary language and English is only a secondary language. The US prints many official documents in Spanish but no one would suggest that Spanish is an official language of the USA.

India is therefore excluded from the vote.

'Ceptin' Hindi ain't, as the little known (outside India) Hindi-Tamil Crisis would indicate.


English was thought (by Nehru, amongst others) to die out in India when the British Empire returned India to Indians, but the outcome has been rather different.

The news of this directive led to massive riots and self-immolations in Tamil Nadu in late 1964 and early 1965, leading the central government, then run by the Congress (see Glossary), to back away from its stand. A conference of Congress leaders, cabinet ministers, and chief ministers of all the states was held in New Delhi in June 1965.

Non-Hindi-speaking states were assured that Hindi would not be imposed as the sole language of communication between the central government and the states as long as even one state objected. In addition any of the Scheduled Languages could be used in taking examinations for entry into the central government services.

http://www.indianchild.com/linguistic_states_india.htm

As far as I can recall, English is an official language within four Indian states and seven or eight territories.


Malcolm Muggeridge once said that the last true Englishmen would be Indians.